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  #1  
Old 09-16-2014, 01:32 AM
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Exclamation Australia commits troops and fighter jets to fighting ISIS

Being Australian I couldn't help but to post this here, links are as follows:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-to-deploy-forces-to-middle-east-20140914-10gqfc.html#ixzz3DIHDUml1

http://christine-milne.greensmps.org.au/category/issues-tags/isis

Some comments from Christine Milne (Leader of the Greens party)

Quote:
Australian Greens Leader Christine Milne tells a press conference in Sydney that the situation in Iraq is complex and should be dealt with diplomatically, cutting off the supply of weapons and money to ISIS and fostering an inclusive Iraqi government.
"Unless that happens, no amount of military might is going to address the situation there."
Quote:
The Australian Greens accept the advice of ASIO on threats to Australia but say we cannot ignore the impact of military engagement in Iraq and the Middle East in increasing the risk at home.
Back in 2004, Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty said Australia was at increased risk because of our involvement in the Iraq war, and Greens Leader Christine Milne says the same applies now
Australia is going to war again and the Prime Minister says it's a humanitarian mission. Our government has usually enjoyed unwavering support from opposing parties when it comes to military matters but this seems to be the exception. Our defence force is some 56,000 active duty personally and some 25,000 reservists. Just as Christine said, we're stretched as it is, and 600 troops is really pushing it, especially for a war that has nothing to do with us.

I understand the fact that the international community needs to come together to defeat ISIS, and I recognize the fact that they are the biggest terror threat we have seen thus far, but the terror threat here at home is growing, and quite frankly, I think it would be better if we kept most of those troops as home. I agree with the deployment of Australian special forces into the fight, but I don’t agree with committing 600 of our troops, and I especially don’t agree with sending 8 superhornets.

It doesn’t look like Australia has a clear foreign policy, we just do what the United States asks us to, when they ask us to do it. With saying that, I personally believe there are a few positives that come out of action on our behalf; Firstly, Australia has enjoyed quite a lot of media coverage these last few years, and what we have seen in the last year is the up scaling of this coverage. Look at MH370, MH17, the G20 and the upcoming Commonwealth games.

Secondly, what I’d really like to see is some Australian-Israeli military cooperation, although I doubt it would ever happen as Israel isn’t getting very heavily involved in this conflict. It would be interesting to see if Australian and Israeli troops would fight alongside each other in the event that Israel came under direct attack from ISIS and were forced to push the militants back. Perhaps the United States would request help from Israel and coalition troops in the event Jordan came under attack. Maybe that’s the only reason a coalition is being formed, to create a deterrence and protect Jordan.

In my honest opinion, as stated by Christine Milne; The only way to solve the situation is to impose a new Iraqi government that treats Sunnis and Shiites equally.
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Old 09-16-2014, 10:20 AM
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Thank you Australia! Always there when the world needs action!

America has a reliable and great friend in Australia!

So far many Arabs and Turkey have promised to join in the fight with ISIS, ALL of them have since backed out or asked for the least possible involvement.

Only Australia, UK and France have truly done things to help fight ISIS. Even Germany the un named leader of the EU has pretty much backed out of the fight against ISIS, I wonder why, but the large Turkish community in Germany is not lost to anyone wondering why.....

Once again, Australia rocks!
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Ron View Post
Thank you Australia! Always there when the world needs action!

America has a reliable and great friend in Australia!

So far many Arabs and Turkey have promised to join in the fight with ISIS, ALL of them have since backed out or asked for the least possible involvement.

Only Australia, UK and France have truly done things to help fight ISIS. Even Germany the un named leader of the EU has pretty much backed out of the fight against ISIS, I wonder why, but the large Turkish community in Germany is not lost to anyone wondering why.....

Once again, Australia rocks!
Thanks New Ron for your kind words.

It is very lucky, we have a Liberal ( Conservative ) Government in power, a Labor Government most probably would have not done the same.

Our new Prime Minister Tony Abbot, and our new Foreign Minister Julie Bishop, are a great team.

Hopefully they have realized, that 'appeasement' policy of WW2's 'Neville Chamberlain'' led to the deaths of 30,000,00 people, and the Holocaust of 6,000,000 Jews.

NEVER AGAIN.

If we down't learn from history we are bound to repeat it,

Unfortunately, POTUS Neville 'Barry' Obama, doesn't seem realize the same.
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Old 09-17-2014, 08:50 PM
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Americans in general do not have the stomach for continued Middle Eastern conflict. As long as we can keep them from our shores then the general public will not support any direct action by American combat troops.

Also, I am not sure ISIS is not trying to involve the US. Why else would they cut of the heads of US and British citizens and post the videos??? Seems to me they are asking for a US response on emotion alone. Smells like a trap and our economy cannot afford to be the world's policeman forever. The rest of the West needs to chip in here. We're broke.

Is there an end game with these Arabs??? Say we come over there and destroy ISIS, then what???? Another power vacuum is filled by who???? Are they better or worse??? We oust Assad, then what???? Putin's not playing ball with us in these matters. If we are unable to provide the Kurds and Sunni Iraqis with some semblance of autonomy then what is going to change for the better???? I completely dismiss the CIA's thought train in regards moderate Syrian Islamist rebels. What are those??? What is a moderate jihadist??? That to me is like claiming someone is a moderate lunatic. You're either crazy or you aren't.

To me the main errors were being late on the threat, the US should have taken ISIS seriously and started to address the threat 6-9 months ago. And secondly we should've been engaging the Sunni Iraqis outside of the Iraqi government. Now we're late to the ball and playing catch up.

Obummer is a pacifist and community organizer is not a job description that prepares someone to lead on a global scale. He's a failure and we're stuck with him unfortunately. I have no issue with time being taken to respond intelligently, but I fear no strong, definitive response will be forthcoming.

Can someone theorize an end game here??? I just don't see one.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:42 AM
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It's not so much about the end, it's more about our moral obligation to do something.

While politics is politics, and no country would ever go in without a clear goal, it seem as though that's exactly what the United States is doing. Their "goal" is to defeat ISIS, but what is the real goal?

I think for Australia, the goal is simple; Honouring our own who gave their lives for the sake of Iraq, and to justify our massive funding to previous operations in Iraq. Perhaps the United States and other large powers can afford to spend a lot of money on these wars, and then leave without achieving success. Australia on the other hand? We aren't nearly as wealthy as the United States, and we put a lot of money, resources and man power into the previous wars and operations, we need to honour that and make sure it wasn't for nothing. After all, our economy did take a turn for the worst on a few occasions.

I think personally the United States is at the head of this, simply because they want to make an attempt at uniting the Middle East, and bringing everyone a step closer to solving their differences. It could even be to test Iran's forces and see what they're capable of, might even be to give Israel's intelligence agencies more of an insight on this, it would explain Iran's cautious approach to joining the coalition.

We also need to make sure ISIS doesn't gain control over certain resources such as oil, as much of what we have comes from the Middle East. It would be catastrophic for the world if this happened, and we're jumping on it before it can.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:56 AM
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I would prefer we wall them all off and let them kill each other to the last man and then we kill the last POS. Problem solved.

You really think the American public gives two craps about uniting a bunch of psycho jihadists. United Arabs sounds like an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.

No offense, but you must be joking. Wouldn't it be more of an honor to our fallen heroes to learn from our mistakes and not risk more lives.

You really believe any of those folks will ever become trustworthy allies??? America has almost achieved energy independence and we have no need for Persian Gulf oil reserves. Let them drink the stuff for all I care.

Seriously Chevy you really believe..."it's more about our moral obligation to do something." Even if that something is reckless???

Success is measured in dead jihadists and no casualties on our side. Success is wiping these scumbags off the face of the Earth for good. Success is meeting the Russians in Tehran and splitting the spoils just like we met at the Elbe River. I have as much compassion for these people as the members here have for SS Einsatzgruppen. There is no reform and no compromise. They hate our way of life and we will always be infidels to be slaughtered without mercy. The only reason to ever set foot in the Middle East again is to help insure Israeli sovereignty.

I only wish someone would solve cold fusion so we could tell these Pizza Hut table cloth towel heads to go pound sand, they have plenty and could hopefully keep them busy for several millennium.

Can you even name one responsible Arab leader that promotes peace???? Any involvement will only lead to more reasons for these sadists to promote more hate toward anything progressive. Order, civility, decency will only lead to these psychos losing their fragile grip on power. Short of an Islamic reformation I see no hope for peaceful co-existence.
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:47 AM
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There are plenty of responsible Arab leaders that promote peace, look at the Saudi leadership, they want to recognize Israe, how about the Jordanian leadership? What about the Egyptians and their mediation efforts? You are incorrect in implying that there are no responsible Arab leaders.

Quote:
..."it's more about our moral obligation to do something." Even if that something is reckless?
What is reckless about fighting terror? We have no choice really, the terror threat here in Australia is rising very quickly, as well as anywhere else in the world. If we can degrade and weaken this radical group, we can motivate people not to join and take up arms with them. If we can stop the massacres, we can restore peace and stability inside our own communities.

I don't know where you get the idea that America is almost completely self reliant, that is completely untrue, I have a relative who used to teach sustainable methods of producing energy at Ben Gurion University and I'd invite the both of you to have a lovely debate over the facts about energy production. Even if you weren't reliant on oil, a lot of the West is and it is in OUR best interest to go in and tackle this group. The threat level is higher in other countries than the United States, so regardless of what reasons the Americans do or do not have for going in, we have our reasons.

Quote:
You really believe any of those folks will ever become trustworthy allies?
This mindset is the very reason we are unable to create such alliances, it's also an invalid mindset as the West does actually have Arab allies - Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq; Increasing cooperation between everyone will bring them closer behind the scenes, even if they are still openly hostile towards each other. Diplomacy is a game of chess, you tackle issues in steps and this will bring us one step closer to peace.

You're deluded if you think there is absolutely no justification for going back into Iraq, the threat isn't just in the Middle East, it spreads to all countries on the globe. It's not about protecting ourselves either, it's about standing by our allies in and around the Middle East and honouring our commitments with them. ISIS is a threat to Turkey for example, and Turkey is a part of NATO. NATO is going to do what it can to protect the interests of Turkey, the very same goes with Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Iraq.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:58 PM
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I pray you're right and I'm wrong Chevy. I'm all for being responsible towards our allies.

Also just heard that Australian authorities have foiled a terrorist attack. Every nation retains the right to act in the best security interests of its people.
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:55 AM
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Yes, that's true, Australian authorities have foiled a few terrorist attacks now, there was even a planned beheading of a random in the streets of Sydney, I'm surprised by how well they are handling it.

With saying that I really hope the world comes together to tackle this issue, because the next world war might not be country vs country, it might be the world vs radical Islam, the threat is internal.
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