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  #21  
Old 05-23-2009, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by scelli View Post
Send him to a training course on how to properly communicate with others using the Internet first. His skills in that department are sadly lacking. I still don't have the slightest idea what the point to all this is yet.
+1

My best guess is pot stirring … Is he from Pakistan too?
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2009, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GB_FXST View Post
+1

My best guess is pot stirring … Is he from Pakistan too?
There you go again being intolerant!

Guards: Off to the Bastille and an appointment with the guillotine for him!
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2009, 07:54 PM
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I might hazard a guess that Eagle is making the very same argument that I happened to have decimated last night - that Israel is impotent against Iran, and that Israel doesn't really have any substantial power if America's backing and support is withdrawn.

If this is indeed your position, I would like to take this opportunity to correct you. Israel will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. As previous posters have said, we are biding our time, trying to see if less invasive measures might be effective. We will wait to blow their nuclear facilities to smithereens until they are actually close to having the weapon (as opposed to the raw materials they now have). And do you know what the rest of the world will do? Nothing! Because no matter how anti-Israel the administrations of some nations are, no one wants those maniacs to have a nuclear weapon.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2009, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by headedforhell View Post
And do you know what the rest of the world will do? Nothing! Because no matter how anti-Israel the administrations of some nations are, no one wants those maniacs to have a nuclear weapon.
Can't say I agree with all your views posted on the forum so far: However, most definitely concur with this particular one. The sad fact is, with the exception of only a few countries left in this world, everyone else is too busy making nice with each other, afraid of negative public opinion or simply militarily incapable of having the wherewithal for striking these Iranian nutcases where it really hurts.

I'm of the opinion we should have settled all accounts with Iran long, long ago...but won't get started here on that.
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2009, 05:17 PM
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N Korea tested a nuclear bomb despite the mlitary capability of the south.The same will happen with Iran
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2009, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
N Korea tested a nuclear bomb despite the mlitary capability of the south.The same will happen with Iran
And the Syrian nuclear plant was bombed into oblivion - despite North Korea's success. Don't make the mistake of believing that the Israeli government will stand by and wait for things to happen, just because the South Koreans did.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2009, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
N Korea tested a nuclear bomb despite the mlitary capability of the south.The same will happen with Iran
I agree with you Eagle, Iran will test a nuclear weapon once it has the capability & that may be soon!

But tell us Eagle, if Israel were to destroy Irans nuclear plants would you be in favor of it, or do you think a political solution is possible?
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2009, 07:19 PM
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N Korea tested a nuclear bomb despite the mlitary capability of the south.The same will happen with Iran

Again your statement lacks depth and substance.

N. Korea is a rogue nation governed by a dictator that just like Iran chooses to violate its UN treaties as their word means nothing to them just as Iran’s word on signed Treaties means nothing to Iran. Such nations run by such people that do not respect even their own word respect only when the world stands up to then with such strength that to withstand such force means your nation will be so harmed that to do so is beyond conception. Only time will tell if World Leaders will stand up and come down on Korea and Iran with such unified sanctions and/or force as to make resistance futile. Or will WORLD weakness and inaction allow the world to slip into another World War as the world did in WWI and WWII. The choice is rather clear with only weak and self-centered blind leaders to blame around the world for lack of action against such clear and present dangers!!!
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2009, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NEW RON View Post
I agree with you Eagle, Iran will test a nuclear weapon once it has the capability & that may be soon!

But tell us Eagle, if Israel were to destroy Irans nuclear plants would you be in favor of it, or do you think a political solution is possible?
No a political solution isn't possible.Israeli leaders know that and they would have already destroyed Iranian nuclear sites if Israel could
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2009, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by haamimhagolan View Post
And the Syrian nuclear plant was bombed into oblivion - despite North Korea's success. Don't make the mistake of believing that the Israeli government will stand by and wait for things to happen, just because the South Koreans did.
Syria didn't have dangerous retaliation means.Iran and NKorea have, that is why I think the same will happen with Iran
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  #31  
Old 05-25-2009, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
No a political solution isn't possible.Israeli leaders know that and they would have already destroyed Iranian nuclear sites if Israel could
Yes again we agree, a political dialogue has been going for years with iran and North Korea and it doesnt work.

Israel has never attacked Iran ever! And yet Iran every year parades in the streets missiles with Israeli flags, meaning they will one day use the missilles to attack Israel. Iran hates Israel because Iran thinks that israel is the enemy of muslims. And yet Israel has always defended every muslims rights to worship in Israel, as there is freedom of worship in Israel.

Therefore Iran the day they will get a nuclear weapon could use it against Israel!

I will tell you something, Israel hasnt attacked Iran not because it cant, you are wrong about that. Israel has on more than one occasion planned to attack Irans nuclear facilities, but the U.S. stopped them short. Israel wanted the U.S. to help them do it, but again the U.S. refused to help, and this was with the Bush administration! if you watched the news these past years you would have seen when those events happened, and Israel asked America that this is the time to destroy Irans nuclear arsenal but America refused.

So Israel may very well have to do it on its own, and they can strike at anytime! They are not unready, they are ready and have the weapons and capabillity to strike today if they are given the order to.
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  #32  
Old 05-26-2009, 01:25 AM
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Anyone else notice Eagle seems to post like a teenager because his posts lack reasoned substance or any thought of alternatives only his broken record reframe. How old are you Eagle and what is your educational background there in Rome, Italy? Do you have any military training? What is your background? Give us your qualifications for speaking on this subject.

As usual people like yourself do not fill out any of the information in your profile. Why?
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  #33  
Old 05-26-2009, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paparock View Post
Anyone else notice Eagle seems to post like a teenager because his posts lack reasoned substance or any thought of alternatives only his broken record reframe. How old are you Eagle and what is your educational background there in Rome, Italy? Do you have any military training? What is your background? Give us your qualifications for speaking on this subject.

As usual people like yourself do not fill out any of the information in your profile. Why?
Yup; pot stirring, pure and simple; he is looking to get a rise from us …
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  #34  
Old 05-27-2009, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haamimhagolan View Post
...Israel will choose the time and the place that is appropriate - the Israeli government, and not the US, or some internet chat board.
As a newbie here myself, I commend your patience - and sense of humor - before Eagle's lack of elaboration. Sounded like fishing without bait, a dangerous business: mess with the best... ****!.
The phrase from haaminhagolan ("chachamim"?) reminded me of the so many couch warriors that post talkbacks at JPost...
Before you ask, I made aliah too old to serve (54), but would love to.
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  #35  
Old 05-27-2009, 11:04 AM
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While Israel certainly has the capability to attack and destroy the critical nodes of the Iranian nuclear program, securing the existing low enriched uranium (over 1 bombs worth and rising), it could already be enriching the LEU to highly enriched uranium without anyone noticing.

Inventories at Natanz by the IAEA are only made once a year, and it only takes 2-3 months to convert the LEU to HEU, either at Natanz or elsewhere. It could already be removed and no-one would know at this point. Probably not (fingers tightly crossed) but it could be. Its already been several months since they accumulated a "sufficient quantity" of LEU to generate the HEU for a bomb.

The point is, even if the critical nodes were destroyed, any LEU remaining or already removed from Natanz (although it could be converted at Natanz), and any HEU already produced, would have to be secured or the Iranians could always fabricate the HEU into a nuclear weapon, or reconstitute an enrichment capability post strike and enrich the LEU to weapons grade fairly quickly.

So, THE question is not how to destroy the enrichment facilities, etc., and not how to get "permission" from Obama (do it anyway, do it now), but how to secure the LEU and any HEU before you can declare success.

There is no question it would be a difficult and dangerous attack mission, but it is certainly doable (see attachment). IMHO there is no longer any reason to wait, and hasn't been for some time. While it would appear Netanyahu has agreed to wait another 6 months, who really knows what was said or agreed. In my mind, waiting at this point accomplishes nothing, and even at the risk of angering the Obama administration, Israel should not, even for a millisecond, hesitate in carrying out this mission. The consequences of hesitation and inaction will be disastrous.
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File Type: pdf Israel Iran.pdf (174.2 KB, 19 views)
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  #36  
Old 05-27-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mover2 View Post
While Israel certainly has the capability to attack and destroy the critical nodes of the Iranian nuclear program, securing the existing low enriched uranium (over 1 bombs worth and rising), it could already be enriching the LEU to highly enriched uranium without anyone noticing.

Inventories at Natanz by the IAEA are only made once a year, and it only takes 2-3 months to convert the LEU to HEU, either at Natanz or elsewhere. It could already be removed and no-one would know at this point. Probably not (fingers tightly crossed) but it could be. Its already been several months since they accumulated a "sufficient quantity" of LEU to generate the HEU for a bomb.

The point is, even if the critical nodes were destroyed, any LEU remaining or already removed from Natanz (although it could be converted at Natanz), and any HEU already produced, would have to be secured or the Iranians could always fabricate the HEU into a nuclear weapon, or reconstitute an enrichment capability post strike and enrich the LEU to weapons grade fairly quickly.

So, THE question is not how to destroy the enrichment facilities, etc., and not how to get "permission" from Obama (do it anyway, do it now), but how to secure the LEU and any HEU before you can declare success.

There is no question it would be a difficult and dangerous attack mission, but it is certainly doable (see attachment). IMHO there is no longer any reason to wait, and hasn't been for some time. While it would appear Netanyahu has agreed to wait another 6 months, who really knows what was said or agreed. In my mind, waiting at this point accomplishes nothing, and even at the risk of angering the Obama administration, Israel should not, even for a millisecond, hesitate in carrying out this mission. The consequences of hesitation and inaction will be disastrous.
Interesting article. Thank you for posting it. Who published it? Also, who is Howard Grad? Google is not helpful when searching his name.
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  #37  
Old 05-27-2009, 01:59 PM
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Howard Grad is me. The post is mine, not published by another. So much for anonymity.

Last edited by mover2; 05-27-2009 at 02:05 PM.. Reason: correctness
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  #38  
Old 05-27-2009, 03:39 PM
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Default Why hasn't Israel attacked Iran?

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Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
why hasn't Israel attacked Iran?
Because Israel hoped the world community would deal with Iran's breaching of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which is after all a UN treaty. The US has not permitted Israel to overfly Iraqi airspace, which the US controls, nor has it allowed Israel to acquire US made "bunker busters."

But it is now obvious (as it was to me LONG ago) that Israel is on its own (as it was in 1967) and will have no choice but to go it alone, despite huge casualties that no doubt Iran and its proxies in Lebanon and in Gaza will inflict on Israel. But it is better to do it BEFORE Iran has the nukes than afterwards. Israel might now lose 100,000 if it attacks IRan. But later it might lose the whole country when Iran already has nukes on some of its missiles. The US is not going to lift a finger to help Israel. That is a foregone conclusion. So Israel must live or die based on what it does or doesn't do soon.
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  #39  
Old 05-27-2009, 04:19 PM
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I agree with you, and what is happenning in North Korea is showing us what will happen in Iran, unless Iran has a radical change during thse elections, that begin an end to the Mullahs. We shall see kep your fingers crossed during the next 3 years.....the news is bound to become interesting whatever happens.
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  #40  
Old 05-27-2009, 05:06 PM
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Actually, I don't believe Iran will attack Israel directly in response to an Israeli attack on their nuclear facilities. I believe they will concentrate on attacking the Gulf States like Bahrein and the U.A.E., and trying to interrupt oil traffic in the gulf without directly firing at U.S. troops, which would kick off a war with the U.S. they probably don't want.

From a military point of view, Iran has very little attack capability except for some missiles/cruise missiles which could reach Israel, with conventional payloads. This would be mostly a terror weapon, would be subject to interception by Arrow and Patriot. If any Iranian response caused heavy civilian casualties in Israel Iran would be basically defenseless against continued Israeli air strikes against their military and infrastructure.

You ask why hasn't Israel acted yet. Probably a combination of hoping the Iranians would fold to the international pressure to stop enriching uranium, a timing issue where only recently has Iran enriched enough UF6 to make LEU sufficient for a nuke (with further enrichment), a political impasse where the previous government was hanging on by a thread, a preoccupation with the Gaza war, and active discouragement from the Bush administration.

Of all the factors, Israel should never subordinate its national interest to the vagaries of whomever is in office in Washington, D.C. The incumbent administration is leaving in 4 or 8 years, and Israel needs to protect itself from what would quickly turn into an incredibly dangerous sword of Damocles hanging over its head, a situation which pales into insignificance the much feared "anger" (who cares, really) of the Obama administration.

Last edited by mover2; 05-27-2009 at 05:08 PM.. Reason: spelling
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