Israel Military Forum

Welcome to the Israel Military Forum. You are currently viewing our Israel Forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, Image Forum and access our other features. By joining our Israel Military Forum you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so
Join Our Israel Community Today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Go Back   Israel Military Forum > Social > Religion
Register FAQ Pictures Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Religion Discuss religious beliefs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-2010, 03:42 PM
desertscout desertscout is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 531
desertscout is on a distinguished road
Default The Satanic verses in the Qur'an

http://www.muhammadanism.org/Quran/SatanicVerses.htm

"Muhammad spoke in the name of Allah and then admitted that he had really spoken the words of Satan."

The Satanic Verses in Qur'an

Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22

Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
The third one, another goddess.
What! For you the males and for him the females!
That indeed is an unfair division. أَفَرَأَيْتُمُ اللَّاتَ وَالْعُزَّى
وَمَنَاةَ الثَّالِثَةَ الْأُخْرَى
أَلَكُمُ الذَّكَرُ وَلَهُ الْأُنثَى
تِلْكَ إِذًا قِسْمَةٌ ضِيزَى. سورة النجم - سورة ‏٥٣: ١٩-٢٢‏
When Muhammad and his community came under severe persecution, eighty-three of his followers who had no protection emigrated from Mecca to Ethiopia, taking refuge in the ancient Christian country, Abyssinia.1 Under increasing boycotts and pressure, Muhammad went through a time of weakness and compromised with the Meccan pagans by acknowledging the existence of three pagan goddesses alongside Allah: Lat, Uzza, and Manat.2 The Arabian goddesses are mentioned in Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22.
The statement that Allah was involved with female goddesses while Muhammad and his people were left with men, was cynically discussed by author Salman Rushdie.3 He made the impure account even more obscene. His book was regarded as utterly blasphemous by all Muslims.
When the inhabitants of Mecca heard Muhammad's confess the importance of the ancient goddesses inside the Ka'aba, they immediately revoked their ban on him. Those who had immigrated to Abyssinia (Ethiopia) started to return home after hearing Muhammad's confession and his acceptance in Mecca. But when they arrived, they were shocked to hear that Muhammad had retracted his confession and admitted that he had fallen prey to the whispering of Satan. Thus, today Islam considers Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22 are related to the time when Muhammad spoke the the Satanic Verses. Salman Rushdie did not invent the Satanic verses.4
In Sura Hajj (Pilgrimage) 22:52-53, Muhammad confessed his mistake, alleging that all prophets were tempted by Satan who inspire them with demonic verses, as if they were actually revealed by God. But later on Allah abrogated those Satanic Verses with new revelations and instructs his prophets with new verses. According to Islam, Allah permits such demonic inspiration to test weak believers and to cut off those with hardened hearts.
Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:
That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth): Hajj (Pilgrimage) 22:52-53. Yusuf 'Ali's translation
The true, vital issue about the Satanic verses is this. If Muhammad were unable to distinguish Satan's voice from God's voice, then could there be verses in the Qur'an that Muhammad assumed were from God but were really from Satan? Maybe much of the Qur'an is Satanic in origin, in spite of Muhammad's conviction that it was entirely from Allah.
The Qur'an clearly states that Muhammad spoke in the name of God and that he said things that God had not commanded him! Next, he charges that all the prophets of God voiced Satanic statements! According to the holy law of God, Muhammad ought to have been put to death as a false prophet! According to the Holy Scriptures, if a prophet spoke anything in the name of LORD that was not from Him, the prophet must be put to death! Muhammad spoke in the name of Allah and then admitted that he had really spoken the words of Satan.
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20 (NIV)

Ibn Ishaq

The complete text of Muhammad's episode with Satan is found in writings of the most ancient Muslim historian, Ibn Ishaq.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-02-2010, 02:32 AM
TwoStrike TwoStrike is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 356
TwoStrike is on a distinguished road
Default I couldn't resist this. Sorry, the vaudville kicked in.

Quote:
Originally posted by desertscout: eighty-three of his followers who had no protection emigrated from Mecca to Ethiopia, taking refuge in the ancient Christian country, Abyssinia.
When they left, did they say :"Mo, Abyssinia" ?
__________________
ג 'ון הבן של אור
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-02-2010, 05:49 AM
desertscout desertscout is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 531
desertscout is on a distinguished road
Default

I reply with the name of a city in California where I resided for a while:

Van Nuys, Van Nuys!!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-30-2010, 03:45 AM
Paparock's Avatar
Paparock Paparock is offline
Dragon
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern California High Desert Mountains
Posts: 48,313
Paparock is on a distinguished road
Arrow The Satanic Verses

The Satanic Verses



Few books have had the publicity that surrounds The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie. This brief article seeks to provide some background material for the book's title and for reasons why even the title might disturb Muslims.

Islam strongly opposes idolatry, polytheism, associating anything or anyone with God. In fact, Islam's creed in Arabic begins with a negative: Not is there a god except God. It contrasts sharply with the contention of Muhammad's Arab contemporaries that God had associates. Some of these associates are even mentioned in the Qur'an, among them three female deities: al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. Each had a shrine in separate places not far from Mecca in Arabia, where Muhammad was born and began his mission. They were even considered to be daughters of God!

The Qur'an, as it now reads, obviously rejects these deities. But—and here comes the issue—did the Qur'an and Muhammad always reject them?
While Muhammad was in Mecca, his followers were few, his movement grew painfully slowly and he, too, felt the pain of estrangement from his tribe. According to early and treasured biographical and historical accounts of Muhammad, authored by competent Muslim scholars (such as writings of at-Tabari and Ibn Sa’d), Muhammad longed for better relations and reconciliation with his community. Thereafter, the accounts continue, God revealed Surah 53 to Muhammad up to and including vss. 19, 20. These two verses read:
Have ye thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza
And Manat, the third, the other? (53:19,20)
Then, originally, the verses (known today as the satanic verses) followed:
These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries)
Whose intercession is to be hoped for.
The cranes whose intercession was recognized were, of course, the three deities. The same accounts tell us that after this revelation was completed, Muhammad, his followers and the pagan Arabs all prostrated. Tensions eased, reconciliation was at hand, and all were delighted.

But Muhammad soon retracted the reconciliation—how soon is not clear. For the account continues that Jibril (Gabriel), the angel of revelation, informed Muhammad that Satan had used Muhammad's desire for reconciliation with the pagan leaders to insert into the revelation of God the verses about the interceding cranes, otherwise called "the satanic verses". The verses which follow, not the satanic verses, serve as the proper sequence to 53:19,20 (above):
Are yours the males and His the females?
That indeed were an unfair division! (53:21,22)
In other words: When you Arabs have sons (whom you prefer to daughters!), how unfair of you to say that God has daughters! The idea of a plurality of gods or goddesses or sons or daughters of God is ridiculous. God alone is God. The three goddesses are false.

Two other passages from the Qur'an are considered to have reference to the compromise between Muhammad and the Arabs, and Muhammad's eventual rejection of it. The first reads:
And they indeed strove to beguile thee (Muhammad) away from that wherewith We (God) have inspired thee, that thou shouldst invent other than it against Us; and then would they have accepted thee as a friend.

And if We had not made thee wholly firm thou mightest almost have inclined unto them a little.

Then had We made thee taste a double (punishment) of living and a double (punishment) of dying, then hadst thou found no helper against Us. (17:73-75)
The second passage is intended to comfort Muhammad:
Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;
That He may make that which the devil proposeth a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease, and those whose hearts are hardened –Lo! the evil-doers are in open schism. (22:52,53)
On the basis of these verses especially, the contemporary designation "The Satanic Verses" arises.

It is not our intention here to defend Rushdie and his book. On the other hand, it is clear that Rushdie did not invent the satanic verses. Moreover, it would seem that Muslims of earlier generations were content to accept that satanic verses could somehow be insinuated into a prophet's message from God, even into the Qur'an, that God could abolish the satanic verses, and that, as the following passage suggests, God could replace even a verse of His own revelation with a similar or better verse of His own:
Such of Our revelations as We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? (2:106 cf. 16:101)
In fact, Islamic theologians of earlier ages carefully sorted out which Quranic passages were abrogating and which were abrogated.

Today, many Muslims deny that God could abrogate or change His Word in any way or form. Ironically, they sometimes interpret Qur'an 2:106 (above) to mean that the Qur'an has abrogated the previous Scriptures of Moses and Jesus—despite the fact that the Qur'an clearly attests that these Scriptures also are the Word of God and therefore, presumably, unchangeable! How much more odious, then, to suggest that at least for a period of time satanic verses actually formed a part of the Qur'an! For many Muslims it is simply inconceivable that Muhammad, even under the severest pressures, would (perhaps even could) compromise with his Meccan enemies, and still more that Satan somehow could "whisper" his thoughts into the substance of God's holy Word, the Qur'an. That is why even the idea of satanic verses in the Qur'an shocks some Muslims.
But, to repeat, Rushdie did not originate the satanic verses. Nor did Jews, Christians or other non-Muslims. Our information about the satanic verses and the circumstances surrounding their revelation stems from the reputable Muslim accounts of at-Tabari and Ibn Sa’d. Muslims today who simply dismiss the account of these writers as fabricated and unhistorical must at least answer the question why such reputable persons would report it. The question is not new. But, it seems, a serious Muslim response is hard to find.


(This article, originally written in 1989 and here slightly edited, draws freely from 1. A Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford, a translation of Ibn Hisham's early Arabic biography of Muhammad; 2. W. M. Watt, Muhammad at Mecca, Oxford, 1953, pp. 101-109. Reference to the topic is also found in a recently published biography of Muhammad by the Iranian Ali Dashti, Twenty-Three Years, translated from Persian by F. R. C. Bagley. Likewise, as to the event's historicity, Shabbir Akhtar's statement is of interest: "... This potentially damaging event, recorded in detail by a scrupulously honest Muslim tradition, had demonstrated the possibility that the Devil could interfere with the Prophet's reception of the revealed text ... In quoting the relevant passages from surah 53 (vv. 19-23) of the Koran—which retain universal currency and complete textual purity—Rushdie perversely substitutes the original continuation of the passage containing the Satanic contribution (p. 114). Elsewhere the Qur'an clearly declares that God annuls the diabolical suggestions made to the Prophet" ("An Open Letter concerning Blasphemy" in Newsletter, Centre for the Study of Islam and Christian-Muslim Relations, Birmingham, Selly Oaks, May 1989; cf. Shabbir Akhtar, A Faith for all Seasons, Bellew Publishing, London, 1990, p. 59). On the historicity of the event, see also Yaqub Zaki, "The Qur’an and Revelation" in Islam in a World of Diverse Faiths, ed. Dan Cohn Sherbok, St. Martin’s Press, New York, p. 43: "... Satanic inspiration is known by the onomatopoeic wiswas (whispering) and there are two verses in the Qur’an whose source was recognized as satanic and were in consequence struck out immediately." It does seem, however, that “immediately” is questionable. Quranic quotations come from M. Pickthall, The Meaning of the Glorious Koran. I found no reference to the satanic verses in Yusuf Ali's popular Quranic commentary! For a better-researched and more detailed presentation on this topic, please refer to Silas, Muhammad and the Satanic Verses, -- Ernest Hahn, 2000)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MUHAMMAD AND THE SATANIC VERSES



Muhammad Spoke the Satanic Verses - The Evidence and Proof


EVIDENCE FROM SAHIH HADITH THAT MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES

FROM THE QURAN

AN ISLAMIC SCHOLAR'S COMMENTARY (TAFSIR)

OTHER COMMENTS

FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIM'S COMPLAINTS AND DENIALS

CONCLUSIONS

BIBLIOGRAPHY


__________________
O Israel
The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-30-2010, 10:56 PM
Maccabee Maccabee is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8
Maccabee is on a distinguished road
Default

It is a famous thing that Mohamed was a pedophile and he couldn’t read or write.
He was also a vicious murderer and a thief, read the history its all there.
The Koran is full of lies from beginning to end, its amazing how many people could fall for his nonsense.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-31-2010, 01:02 AM
Paparock's Avatar
Paparock Paparock is offline
Dragon
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern California High Desert Mountains
Posts: 48,313
Paparock is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee View Post
It is a famous thing that Mohamed was a pedophile and he couldn’t read or write.
He was also a vicious murderer and a thief, read the history its all there.
The Koran is full of lies from beginning to end, its amazing how many people could fall for his nonsense.
Please offer references to articles or other forms of proof when making such claims. They are easy to find so do the work.
__________________
O Israel
The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-31-2010, 05:23 AM
desertscout desertscout is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 531
desertscout is on a distinguished road
Default

The issue that bothers me most about Islam's phoney prophet, is that while Muhammad doesn't come close to the stature of the most minor of Israel's prophets (and none were really minor in their prophetic significance); Muhammad attempted to drag all of G-d's anointed prophets down to his own miserable level of pagan existence. In this instance, Muhammad has borne false witness and uttered a most damnable lie!!! Doom on Muhammad for his perfidy!!!

A reference to Muhammad's false witness as recorded by Al-Tabari is cited below.


Al-Tabari


The complete text of al-Tabari's account of the Satanic verse follows. As can be seen from al-Tabari's writings, the evidence is conclusive that Muhammad was used by Satan. To excuse his own conduct, Muhammad blamed Satan, and then he defamed all the prophets when he claimed that Satan casts words into the mouths of all the prophets. In other words, Muhammad charged that all the prophets uttered words under the inspiration of Satan! This Qur'anic verse is itself a Satanic Verse woven into the very fabric of the Qur'an. Muhammad offered not the slightest proof to substantiate his wicked defamation of Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Elijah, etc.

Never did We send a Messenger or a Prophet before you, but; when he did recite the revelation or narrated or spoke, Shait? (Satan) threw (some falsehood) in it. But All? abolishes that which Shait? (Satan) throws in. Then All? establishes His Revelations. And All? is All-Knower, All-Wise: Sura al-Hajj 22:52 (Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan's Translation)

http://www.muhammadanism.org/Quran/SatanicVerses.htm
Reply With Quote
Israel Forum
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Israel Military Forum