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Religion Discuss religious beliefs.

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  #21  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janetnjohn View Post
he realised he was in heaven when he saw all the sheep in NZ
You're not hiding your jealousy very well
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All our wars in air or in water are of NO worth;
if we haven’t so far learnt to live on earth.
All battles do culminate in ending a war;
A war generating battles is ‘curse’ not ‘mirth’.

At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:25 AM
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i know!!
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Passage Isaiah 62

I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,


"I ask then, has God rejected His people? By no means! God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. For the gifts and call of God are irrevocable."
(Romans 11:1,2,29)
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:03 PM
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Default Proof?

Okay, so many believe that there was no Intelligent God who created life. Yet thet know that many scientists gather in specially designed rooms and use specially designed equipment set up in a specially designed way and in a specially designed environment and use a specially designed method in the hopes of creating new life where there was none. Doesn't all that show that life was most likely the result of INTELLIGENT will?

Remember too that God would be above the Laws of Physics He created.

Cheers
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Rock View Post
Okay, so many believe that there was no Intelligent God who created life. Yet thet know that many scientists gather in specially designed rooms and use specially designed equipment set up in a specially designed way and in a specially designed environment and use a specially designed method in the hopes of creating new life where there was none. Doesn't all that show that life was most likely the result of INTELLIGENT will?

Remember too that God would be above the Laws of Physics He created.

Cheers
G-d and science are not contradictory, I agree with you.

Some of the best scientists have been deeply religious.

I find G-d in a 5.2% abv Molson Black Ice of course
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All our wars in air or in water are of NO worth;
if we haven’t so far learnt to live on earth.
All battles do culminate in ending a war;
A war generating battles is ‘curse’ not ‘mirth’.

At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:58 PM
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Exclamation G_d is a covering to His people Israel

The continued fulfillment of prophecy such as the reestablishment of Israel as a nation in one day along with so may others in the Hebrew Texts that continue today show the existence of G_d. How can a tiny number of Jews surrounded by nations that have committed to the destruction/extermination of Israel and the Jewish people not only survive but flourished in a land since 1948. The G_d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is their G_d and His arm is not weak.
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O Israel
The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”

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  #26  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Paparock View Post
The continued fulfillment of prophecy such as the reestablishment of Israel as a nation in one day along with so may others in the Hebrew Texts that continue today show the existence of G_d. How can a tiny number of Jews surrounded by nations that have committed to the destruction/extermination of Israel and the Jewish people not only survive but flourished in a land since 1948. The G_d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is their G_d and His arm is not weak.

I well remember when the Six Day War broke out in 1967. I followed the events as best I could from here in Canada. At war's end I remarked and still do (I get shivers up my spine whenever I think about this thought) that it was EXCEEDINGLY interesting that the War lasted SIX days. And the war ended on Saturday, June 10, 1967 - the Sabbath Day. Very interesting isn't it? I firmly believe that God once again fought for HIS People and that He confounded the minds of Israel's enemies.

Cheers
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2012, 01:53 AM
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religion is the invention of man and his striving to gain understanding as PapaRock stated. G-d isn't interested in our religion-the adhesion to a strict set of rules but wants an intimate relationship with each person. and as with each relationship a set of rules for the benefit for both parties are established, these are not the rules of religion but a benchmark of what is to be expected by both parties-if you are married then you'll know what i'm talking about! yes, athiest people are good people and live worthy lifes, i myself was once an atheist. but against what do we measure our goodness? if against the man standing next to you then you may well be of excellent character but if you measure up against G-d then you will fall short.
sadly 'religion' does a very poor job of explaining itself and uses a language that is both 'romanticised' and sometimes hard to grasp. but G-d has said that "all who call upon the name of the LORD will be saved" so it is possible for anyone to experience this deeper understanding of the presence of G-d. even when i was an athiest i had a deep feeling that G-d would never let me down and never let me go, it is something i have known all my life. basically if you imagine a child learning to walk, the parent will hold that child and guide its footsteps but in order for the child to truly learn it must be set free from its parents hands and walk towards the other parent, G-d has done so much for us but at some stage we must take that step towards G-d. you cannot experince G-d without coming towards him, yes Ismael knows the presence of G-d and therefore knows how to see that hand upon his life but many athiests also have been taken care of by a hidden benefactor without ever realising G-d's presence. but to really know G-d is to give your life to him and live with him. after all you cannot be married without getting married and then living with and moving forward with that marriage partner. we are not 'special' as some religious types would have you believe but merely have known and recognised that G-d exists and we are the better for having him in our lives. G-d is waiting for all of us to call on him.
Exactly! Religion is the invention of man. As I have always heard it, Religion is man trying to reach God on his own efforts, while faith in Jesus is God reaching out to man.

I recently read an excellent book by Dinesh D'Souza, Evidence: Life After Death. An excellent read. And I am in the process of reading his book Godforsaken.

He puts into very clear thought and words what I have always tried to explain on the existence of God (of the Bible) as the Creator.
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  #28  
Old 12-01-2012, 04:39 AM
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I don't care about religion but about my personal relationship with G_d.
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O Israel
The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”

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  #29  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:04 AM
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What has been called religion is pretty unsavoury. But God Himself--for those who accept the Torah--did establish some very particular rules, and gave some very specific commandments. Our title deed to Israel is in that book, so I'd feel very uncomfortable with it becoming a Book of Options and Inspirations, which is what it has become to many. That said, I appreciate that we all have different lives and different experiences, and different degrees of revelation, or perhaps none at all.

I agree that science is not at odds with faith and Torah and belief in God. In the US, many people are polarized over this issue. In Israel you can see bearded orthodox men with kippas on their heads working in cutting edge science at our best institutions.

I am never happy when men of science like Dawkins and Hawking venture outside their area of competence--which is considerable--and pontificate on God and faith. Reminds me of Hollywood actors issuing press releases on politics and society, as if the ability to make a lot of money staring in trite pap gives them wisdom and insight, rather than just a bully pulpit.
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:30 AM
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well said!
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Passage Isaiah 62

I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,


"I ask then, has God rejected His people? By no means! God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. For the gifts and call of God are irrevocable."
(Romans 11:1,2,29)
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  #31  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:09 PM
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G-d's word is always up for interpretation, to take it literally smacks of Islamism and leads to tragedy.
__________________
All our wars in air or in water are of NO worth;
if we haven’t so far learnt to live on earth.
All battles do culminate in ending a war;
A war generating battles is ‘curse’ not ‘mirth’.

At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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  #32  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Knaur View Post
G-d's word is always up for interpretation, to take it literally smacks of Islamism and leads to tragedy.
Here I have to disagree by way of clarification. On the contrary, "radical" Islam is the most divergent from the Qur'anic text, the least literal, and in fact based on Hadith and Shari'ah, and heavily influenced by various other local and pre-Islamic traditions, even where they contradict the Qur'an. I am certainly not an apologist for Islam. However, literalism isn't the source of the problem.

On the other hand, the literalist Christians are often the only dedicated and vocal friends of Israel. But bear in mind, there are many religions being called Christianity, even "fundementalist" Christianity, from dispensationalist free-will evangelicals, to predestinarian 5-point Calvinism. For those who delve into it, it is hard to see these versions as being compatible or even rooted in any central identical beliefs. Usually, because they are not.

The entire Jewish presence in Israel, or more correctly: the entire return of Israel (which refers to a people) to its land (the land OF the people Israel), is completely dependent on a literal belief in Torah (aka Hebrew Scripture aka Old Testament).

Ironically, a literal belief in the Qur'an by Muslims would insist on a belief in God giving the land of Kna'an/Canaan, called Palestine by them today, to Israel for eternity. Now a lot otherwise in the Qur'an may not mesh or meld with Biblical beliefs, but that one--Israel chosen by God and given the land of Kna'an/Canaan, does.

The Nation of Israel, returned to its land, was not the result of a UN vote. Its survival not the result of the IDF. These are tools of God, and as such may be sanctified (as the armies of Moshe Rebaynu/Moses against the dwellers in Canaan), or evil (Pharoah's armies chasing down the Children of Israel).

I have to say, reading "Old Testament" in Hebrew there is almost no confusion between chronology and history, allegory, metaphor, prophecy, moral preaching, etc. I don't imply that it is therefore all clear and a simple set of books. But pick up a King James, or especially an NIV, or a Douay, and I sometimes see another work entirely from the Hebrew Scriptures. Now those translations may indeed spawn all kinds of interpretative difficulties, as they reflect their human translators, and have some incorrect or poor or vague translations within.

The Roman church does allegorize and reinterpret heavily, as do her daughters the Eastern Orthodox and the Protestants. Strictly speaking, a modern, fundamentalist Christian is essentially outwith the Roman or daughter Protestant tradition on this account. And the gulf between fundamentalists who are Israel-oriented, and so-called mainstream Protestantism, which is huge, is based on being literal or not. Fortunately, many good people are unaware of the essential Replace (of Israel) Theology of their churches, and though they do not leave these communities, do actually support Israel. A contradiction, yes, but better that than actually believing the God is finished with Israel!

Sometimes the current centrist, middle-way believers are, from a Biblical perspective, the extremist in their beliefs. The born-agains, the die-hard (sometimes actually so historically) fundamentalists, are thought of as extreme, or at least a bit nutty, or obsessed, or too religious. Yet within their ranks, almost exclusively, are to be found the Friends of Israel, and those who battle against Replacement Theology (which defines 95% of Roman-filtered "Christianity" historically.

Knaur, I do know that you mean to speak of those who hear "their" scriptures, and who are then moved to violence and bullying, who are chanting mob rowdies that sound like their favourite team just lost a chance for the finals, and want to bang head. I'm just saying that while you are right in one sense, however, it is precisely literalism in Biblical analysis that allows for the Return of Israel to its homeland, and a belief in the direct intervention by God in the affairs of mankind.

What is the alternate to a careful, accurate reading of scripture? Allegorizing and deconstructing the prophecies about Israel, too? If they are not literal, then we are not here. All these people around me, and myself too, are not a reborn Israel in its own land, and world leaders in Berlin, London, Washington, Paris, Rome were all 100% reasonable to firmly object to Israel building homes in the Land of Israel this week. Because it is only the Land of (the people called) Israel to the Biblical literalists.

Last edited by David of Galilee; 12-04-2012 at 06:21 AM..
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:28 AM
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Scholars disagree on metaphors, that's the thing. To each his own, some of the interpretations taken literally would make no sense because they are meant to be understood in context.

Relationship with G-d is personal, organised religion focusses too much on perfection and ignores the fundamental beliefs.

And I digress that Moslems who have variations are more violent, it is completely opposite, Sufis, Ahmediyas and other "blasphemers" are most peaceful of Islamic sects while the most literalist like Wahhabism are the most aggressive.

And the Sharia laws stem from literal interpretation of Koran i.e. Muhammad married a 9 yr old and married four times, so everyone can do so etc.
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All our wars in air or in water are of NO worth;
if we haven’t so far learnt to live on earth.
All battles do culminate in ending a war;
A war generating battles is ‘curse’ not ‘mirth’.

At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9

Last edited by Knaur; 12-04-2012 at 06:34 AM..
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