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  #21  
Old 12-21-2012, 03:21 PM
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Don't assume that everything of supreme interest to this matter of "lost tribes" is available in published form, or in any language other than Hebrew (or Aramaic, and some German and Yiddish wouldn't hurt for very secondary references). This is way too large a subject to pursue casually at a forum. So I'll leave you to reference the matter as you like. It is an old topic to us, and we may, perhaps, have gone down a few different roads in the pursuit of our fellow Israelis, lost, obscured, or known but isolated around the world. Most Israeli scholars do NOT accept the "Lost Tribe" idea as typically and popularly stated. We are not a monolithic people, and differences liven the debate and are good for everyone.

The critical heart of the matter is that Israel is, and has always been, interested in reuniting the Diaspora in the Land of Israel. Don't worry if we have some variance in approach, or in some of our research. We don't tell you guys everything we know!

Fascinating topic--good luck!

Last edited by David of Galilee; 12-21-2012 at 03:50 PM..
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:28 PM
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1. "This is way too large a subject to pursue casually at a forum."
----yes, it is a large subject, but will never be solved if ignored.

2. "Most Israeli scholars do NOT accept the "Lost Tribe" idea as typically and popularly stated. We are not a monolithic people..."
---- I disagree, I have talked to many Jew's staring with my time in the military (where you can meet people of different backgrounds). I go to a Messanic church, where the Jew's there come from orthodox, conservative and liberal backgrounds, they all grew-up using this phrase.
3 ---- My topic in the beginning was NOT the 'Lost Tribes of Israel', but the HEBREW - JAPAN CONNECTION! In which the DNA proves this. This has been a good subject to bring up with Japanese in sharing the Bible with them.
---This happens sometimes, your website, the topics get twisted AWAY from the subject! If one stays focus on the subject, the subject will stay in play and maybe more information from others can be brought forth.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:09 PM
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Don't worry--the subject is hardly being ignored because we might not pursue it here. I am used to a more systematic, scholarly approach, and one that accepts that great scholars can have some very different takes on the data at hand, and some very contrasting conclusions. I suspect you'd be quite surprised at the variety and depth of research here, but you'd need some other languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, Assyrian, German, Greek to be able to understand the sources yourself. English is good only for some of the reviews.

Not correct, though, to say imply that most Jewish scholars accept the popular ideas of "Ten Lost Tribes." But if you believe that they do, that is your privilege. Not sure I understand your intentions, but, again, good luck!

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  #24  
Old 12-27-2012, 04:58 PM
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Default Imperial Japan had excellent relations with Jews


Imperial Japan had excellent relations with Jews. The Japanese were extremely grateful for the support they received from Jewish financer Jacob Schiff who supported Japan because he hated anti-Semitic Russia. During WW2 Japan made efforts to save Jews. There was a Japanese plan to resettle Jews in Manchuria to protect them from the holocaust. The Japanese industrialists promoting the plan thought the combination of Jewish ingenuity and Japanese discipline would be a powerful combination. The plan was nixed by a US Jewish leader.
I don't understand why the relationship between Japan and Israel is not closer today. It may be that Japan is too dependant on Arab oil.


Info on Jacob Schiff

During the Russo-Japanese War, in 1904 and 1905, in perhaps his most famous financial action, Schiff, again through Kuhn, Loeb & Co., extended a critical series of loans to the Empire of Japan, in the amount of $200 million. He was willing to extend this loan due, in part, to his belief that gold is not as important as national effort and desire, in helping win a war, and due to the apparent underdog status of Japan at the time; no European nation had yet been defeated by a non-European nation in a modern, full-scale war. It is quite likely Schiff also saw this loan as a means of avenging, on behalf of the Jewish people, the anti-Semitic actions of the Tsarist regime, specifically the then-recent pogroms in Kishinev.

This loan attracted worldwide attention, and had major consequences. Japan won the war, thanks in large part to the purchase of munitions made possible by Schiff's loan. Some within the Japanese leadership took this as evidence of the power of Jews all around the world, of their loyalty to one another, and as proof of the truth of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the antisemitic Tsarist forgery. In 1905, Schiff was awarded the Japanese Order of the Sacred Treasure; in 1907 he was honored with the Japanese Order of the Rising Sun, Gold and Silver Star, which represents the second highest of eight classes associated with the award. Schiff was the first foreigner to have been personally awarded the Order by Emperor Meiji in the Imperial Palace. Schiff was also invited to a private audience in 1904 with King Edward VII of the United Kingdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%...apan_relations
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  #25  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:50 AM
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Jews tend to view Russia as an eastern, oriental country with a a veneer of Europeanism, mostly limited to the aristocracy (and we know where they went at Yekaterinburg in 1918!). Russians ceased being European with 250 years of Mongol rule, and being cut-off from the west.

The Jewish nation in exile, and back at home in the Land of Israel, tends to use alliances for the practical purpose of aiding in the survival of the Jewish nation for another day or month or year. Sometimes that means we make deals with countries that are not our allies in the fullest sense of the word, but with whom we have enough in common that we have some of the same enemies. If this makes sense.

So sometimes we help countries that may even stand against some of our own morality and ethics. Japan did not have the embedded Western anti-Semitism. But neither did China, where many Jews found refuge in several periods of our history.

Many of our alliances are "for a time and a season," and should not be seen as a permanent link between Israel and any one nation. These alliances end not because we no longer have use for even temporary "friends," but because or so-called friends inevitably grow tired of us, and abandon us. Japan toes a very anti-Israel line now, and has for several decades.

The discourse of Balak and Ba'alam from Numbers 23, regarding Israel:

הֶן-עָם לְבָדָד יִשְׁכֹּן, וּבַגּוֹיִם לֹא יִתְחַשָּׁב

Lo, it is a people that shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations.

Special connections between Israel and various other nations are fascinating history, and well worth exploring. But they are, according to the Torah, all ephemeral, for a time and a season only. The bonds of loyalty and friendship between Israel and individuals of the nations is, however, genuine and of lasting and eternal value.

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  #26  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:49 AM
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בני מנשה בדרכם לישראל 7,000
הרב אליהו אביחיל שאיתר את 'עשרת השבטים', מברך על ההחלטה להעלות את שארית הקהילה מהודו, "זו התחלה דגאולה".

Translation: 7000 B'NEI MENASHEI ON THEIR WAY TO ISRAEL
SOURCE: http://www.inn.co.il/News/News.aspx/246514 from November Arutz Sheva
---------

I know few here read Hebrew, but I just wanted to show that the issue of gathering in the more isolated and until recently less-known groups of Israelis from their long exiles far from Israel is in the mainstream press of Israel. Well-discussed, much researched by scholars, and the government is taking action.

Specifically on the Japanese connection. No. I did host at my house a Japanese Baptist minister named Isaku (Isaac), and this topic was lively around the dinner table. Unfortunately, he tried to "prove" that Japanese writing (not the borrowed Chinese ideograms) was connected to Hebrew, and he was unaware that what he knew as the Hebrew alphabet (Aramaic Square) was not the same as the alphabet used at the time of the Assyrian attack (Paleo-Hebrew).

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Old 12-28-2012, 03:57 PM
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"I am used to a more systematic, scholarly approach, and one that accepts that great scholars can have some very different takes on the data at hand..."
----SORRY, I GUESS THAT I AM JUST AN IGNORANT "JARHEAD."
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makoto View Post
"I am used to a more systematic, scholarly approach, and one that accepts that great scholars can have some very different takes on the data at hand..."
----SORRY, I GUESS THAT I AM JUST AN IGNORANT "JARHEAD."
Just discuss the topic as you wish, bring up what you wish. If I hold a different opinion, or take a different tack that you do, that ought not be taken as personal. Just accept that people approach such topics such as a Japanese-Israel connection, or the issue of the so-called lost northern tribes of Israel from many different points of view. Having such differences is in no way personally insulting, nor anything but productive in the pursuit of knowledge. The natural friction of debate is healthy and stimulating. We are all far from having wrapped up the issue of the partially missing tribes of the north, or what connections might exist between ancient, exiled Israelis and other nations, such as Japan. Far from it. You and anyone else here are free to carry on discussing Japan-Israel connections. I am just one relatively new member among many.

If you are literally a US Marine, then I have known many of your comrades over the last 40 years, including performing the Marines' Hymn at Marine Birthday Balls for the US Embassy in Israel, and providing music for many officers dine-ins. It would never occur to me to think of any US Marine, enlisted or officer, as ignorant, especially in association with being in the service. On the contrary, if I was a rabbi I'd offer to convert you all to the Faith of Israel, and reenlist you in the IDF in a heartbeat. I would never disrespect anyone as an "ignorant jarhead" under any circumstances--that would insult your commitment and your expression of patriotism to your country.

Just don't be sensitive about disagreements or different approaches--and don't take such things as if personal. You have no enemies here, I am sure. We are of different cultures, and perhaps sometimes the Jewish manner of "speech" put into writing is blunter than American culture is used to, but it is all good.

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  #29  
Old 12-29-2012, 01:06 AM
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Makoto, its a very wide subject, its natural to expect disagreement on both theories and "established facts" as we know them.

I have myself studied History more than laymen, including some Israeli history and Japanese history from Middle Ages till Meiji Restoration in Uni, and yet I know very little of these things, obviously you'd need to keep an even temper on this little known subject.

And we love our Jarheads on this forum, mate, thats Mr. Jarhead Sir to me of course

Military experience is always valued highly and service of Vets appreciated here, but that does not mean we view Mil Pros as experts in all things worldwide!

Please do go on with your interesting posts.
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:46 PM
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garpk:

Thanks for this info.
I was not aware of a Jacob Schiff sponsoring the Japanese government.
Was Schiff from Russia and immigrated to the U.S. or another country?

Also; I was not aware of any intention by the Japanese to bring Jew’s to Manchuria. This is very interesting.
What book titles can I can find these two subjects that you mentioned?


Knaur:

…”you'd need to keep an even temper on this little known subject.” Yes, I do, thanks for bringing me back to reality.
I felt offended in mentioned statement of his, and I was getting irritated that he took the thread off-track on a tangent about using the term “Lost Tribes”.
I had anticipated a more positive response from this website.


David of Galilee:

“…"I am used to a more systematic, scholarly approach, and one that accepts that great scholars can have some very different takes on the data at hand...”
----Scholarly is done at the halls of o universities.
----I am not a scholar.
----Scholar’s do stay focused on subject.
----I have noticed that liberal professors are very prone to constantly getting off track of subjects. They love to do it and do it in a show-off way.

“…Jews tend to view Russia as an eastern, oriental country with a a veneer of Europeanism…’
---I see that you are a learned person very knowledgeable in many areas. I also can see that you seem to make-up ‘stuff’ as you go along also. I have seen this with some college professors that if they came across a subject they where not really familiar with, then they would make-up something. They did this with an egotistical way.
----Russia is European; they are part of the Slovak people. Of all the Jew’s I have meet and know now have never use this term. This is totally “off the chart”!
----Russia’s culture, language, traditions, religion, and everything about it are European.
---The Ashkenazi Jew’s immigrated in-and-out of Russia, along with the rest of Eastern Europe and Germany during the many years of persecution from these countries. That’s basically all they saw for generations was Germany and Eastern Europe (which includes Russia).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


There are many subjects under the belief of a Japan – Hebrew Connection that I had also wanted to mention, but I was side-tracked.
The beginning of this thread, I posted the first chapter of articles from a Pastor Kubo in Japan, and from his website. At the end of the chapter, you can click to the remaining chapters (Chapters 2,3,and 4).

In another chapter he discuss about the similarities of guarding the ancient Israel temple to guarding of the grand Shinto shrine. There also some similarities between the Shinto religions set-up and Judaism.


Surprise of Chief Rabbi of Israel
Rabbi Marvin Tokayer, who used to live in Japan, tells a story about when the chief rabbi of Israel, Shlomo Goren, once visited Japan.
Chief rabbi Goren was very curious and fascinated with Japan and enjoyed his stay very much. He said that he wanted to learn the essence of Japanese Shinto religion, and he attended for a while a lecture at Kokugakuin University which is a Shinto university in Tokyo.
At the lecture, the chief rabbi asked the lecturer a question about how to guard Shinto grand shrine, that is, where the guards stand, how they patrol, in what turn they patrol the places, and how to shift the guards. Hearing the answer, Rabbi Goren was very surprised and said, "Unbelievable." Turning his face pale, he said to Rabbi Tokayer who was young in those days, "Do you understand the importance of what the Shinto lecturer said?" Then he added, "Read the Mishnah, and you will know why I was so surprised to hear it."
The Mishnah, the teachings of ancient Jewish scholars, has an explanation on how the ancient temple of Jerusalem had been guarded. As a matter of fact, Shinto's way of guarding, patrolling, and shifting guards at shrine is just the same as the one which had been done at the ancient temple of Jerusalem. The temple of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C.E. and not yet rebuilt. How could the way of guarding at Japanese Shinto shrine be the same as the one at the temple of ancient Israel? Chief rabbi's word "Unbelievable" is a natural response.


http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam3.htm
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  #31  
Old 01-03-2013, 01:28 PM
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MAKOTO said:---I see that you are a learned person very knowledgeable in many areas. I also can see that you seem to make-up ‘stuff’ as you go along also. I have seen this with some college professors that if they came across a subject they where not really familiar with, then they would make-up something. They did this with an egotistical way.

Just that it be clear, I am not a liberal, nor am I a professor, nor am I prone to telling lies for my own entertainment or anyone else's. I am just a Israeli university librarian, semi-retired.

Cannot civilised people have different opinions, and different perspectives, and different methods of pursuing common interests? People do not need to agree. Just argue your points, present your opinion, reference as you see fit--that is always great and wonderful.

You've made an ad hominem point by stating that I am dishonest, and that is a character slur. Pistols at Dawn! Just kidding... This certainly isn't a personal duel.

Let's start over, and we'll just figure that we have had a misunderstanding, which hardly need be fatal. We ought not dwell on such things, friend. If you feel wronged or slighted in the future, send me a private message. This isn't really a public matter. So, shall we start over with a clean slate? Deal?

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Old 01-03-2013, 02:36 PM
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"point by stating that I am dishonest, and that is a character slur."
--- I NEVER CALLED NOR SAID THAT YOU ARE "DISHONEST", PLEASE DON'T PUT WORD INTO MY MOUTH!
---I am only refuting your statements that are NOT CORRECT.

I presume your are Jewish, if so I find it STRANGE that you are not interested in that there is a blood relation to the Japanese people. The American Jew's I know here in the U.S., both Messanic and Conservative are interested and excited over this news.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makoto View Post


There are many subjects under the belief of a Japan – Hebrew Connection that I had also wanted to mention, but I was side-tracked.
The beginning of this thread, I posted the first chapter of articles from a Pastor Kubo in Japan, and from his website. At the end of the chapter, you can click to the remaining chapters (Chapters 2,3,and 4).

While he may be correct in your mind on some things, seems Pastor Kubo and his (supposedly) biblical Remnant Publishing group has also been responsible for giving credence to other "truths" such as these:

http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/~remnant/nankingm.htm

http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/~remnant/pacificwar.htm
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makoto View Post
"point by stating that I am dishonest, and that is a character slur."
--- I NEVER CALLED NOR SAID THAT YOU ARE "DISHONEST", PLEASE DON'T PUT WORD INTO MY MOUTH!
---I am only refuting your statements that are NOT CORRECT.

I presume your are Jewish, if so I find it STRANGE that you are not interested in that there is a blood relation to the Japanese people. The American Jew's I know here in the U.S., both Messanic and Conservative are interested and excited over this news.
You find it strange that I am "not interested"? Who said? I certainly did not. I've spent years studying remnants of my fellow Israelites in the Diaspora. Including studying Hebrew roots found in the Japanese language!

Gracious, man, just disagree about topical points and stop having a go at my character or personality. I am sure that if we sat face-to-face none of this unhelpful confusion would even exist.

**Sigh**

Can you not see fit to put this distress away and move on?

!אוי ואבוי

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Old 01-03-2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makoto View Post
garpk:

Thanks for this info.
I was not aware of a Jacob Schiff sponsoring the Japanese government.
Was Schiff from Russia and immigrated to the U.S. or another country?

Also; I was not aware of any intention by the Japanese to bring Jew’s to Manchuria. This is very interesting.
What book titles can I can find these two subjects that you mentioned?




http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam3.htm

Jacob Schiff was born in Germany but became famous in America...

The link below has many good sources...


http://strangeside.com/russo-japanes...-jacob-schiff/
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:33 PM
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David of Galilee:

"Can you not see fit to put this distress away and move on?"
---I can, I'm not the one that went to a tangent about the term "Lost Tribes" and rebutted some of my postings.
---In your previous replies you did not seem it was interesting.


garpk:

Thanks for the info.




Some Japanese (mostly Christians) years ago came upon this subject.
It pretty much feel on deaf hears, even amongst the Japanese.
It starting to get some notice in Japan, especially after some documentary shows on 'Channel Tokyo.'

"Israelites Came to Ancient Japan,” by Arimasa Kubo

"Nihon-Yudaya, Huin no Kodaishi” (Japan-Israel, A Sealed Ancient History) written by Rabbi Marvin Tokayer

"Nihon-shoki to Nihon-go no Yudaya Kigen” (Jewish Origin of Nihon-shoki and Japanese) written by Joseph Eidelberg

"The Biblical Hebrew Origin of the Japanese People" by Joseph Eidelberg (Jun 30, 2005)


"The Replica Of The Ark Of The Covenant In Japan: The Mystery of MiFune-Shiro" by Gene Cho (Dec 27, 2007)


"A Japanese Robinson Crusoe (Intersections: Asian and Pacific American Transcultural Studies)" by Jenichiro Oyabe, Greg Robinson and Yujin Yaguchi (Apr 2009)


"Nihon oyobi Nihon kokumin no kigen: Kodai Nihonjin wa Heburaijin nari" (Japanese Edition) by Zen?ichir? Oyabe


"Nihonjin no rutsu wa Yudayajin da" (Japanese Edition) by Zen?ichir? Oyabe (1991


"Origin of Japan and Japanese People"
by Oyabe Zen’ichiro


"Study of Hebrew Japanese Songs" by Eiji Kawamorita


"The Lost Tribes of Israel: The History of a Myth" by Tudor Parfitt (Nov 1, 2003)
Excerpt - Page 182: "... common-origin theorist was Kawamorita Eiji (189 1-1960). Kawamorita, a ..." See a random page in this book.


"THE GREAT MIGRATION OF THE TEN TRIBES FROM NORTERN ISRAEL" by Hiroshi Ohsugi, Yuji Sato and Jason Sheman (May 26, 2011)

[IMG]file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Kevin\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_i mage001.jpg[/IMG]


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Old 01-04-2013, 02:12 PM
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“Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.”

I am going to consider all this resolved and in the past.

I will read your postings with interest.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:05 PM
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I just came across this story below, a friend, whom is retired U.S. Army (Green Beret) came across this and e-mailed it to me. He is not for sure of a 100 % accuracy.
I haven’t had time to check it out completely; maybe someone out there can confirm or deny the validity of it.
During my 9 years in Japan, the only Muslim’s I saw were some foreign exchange students.
The story he sent me is;



I NEVER KNEW THIS ABOUT JAPAN
The Japanese are a very evolved race.

Have you ever read in the newspaper that a political leader or a prime
minister from an Islamic nation has visited Japan?
Have you ever come across news that the Ayatollah of Iran or the King of
Saudi Arabia or even a Saudi Prince has visited Japan?

Japan is a country keeping Islam at bay. Japan has put strict restrictions
on Islam and ALL Muslims.

The reasons are:

a) Japan is the only nation that does not give citizenship to Muslims.
b) In Japan permanent residency is not given to Muslims.
c) There is a strong ban on the propagation of Islam in Japan .
d) In the University of Japan, Arabic or any Islamic language is not
taught.
e) One cannot import a 'Koran' published in the Arabic language.
f) According to data published by the Japanese government, it has given
temporary residency to only 2 lakhs, Muslims, who must follow the Japanese Law
of the Land. These Muslims should speak Japanese and carry their religious
rituals in their homes.
g) Japan is the only country in the world that has a negligible number of
embassies in Islamic countries.
h) Japanese people are not attracted to Islam at all.
i) Muslims residing in Japan are the employees of foreign companies.
j) Even today, visas are not granted to Muslim doctors, engineers or
managers sent by foreign companies.
k) In the majority of companies it is stated in their regulations that no
Muslims should apply for a job.
l) The Japanese government is of the opinion that Muslims are
fundamentalist and even in the era of globalization they are not
willing to change their
Muslim laws.
m) Muslims cannot even think about renting a house in Japan .
n) If anyone comes to know that his neighbor is a Muslim then the whole
neighborhood stays alert.
o) No one can start an Islamic cell or Arabic 'Madrasa' in Japan
p) There is no Sharia law in Japan .
q) If a Japanese woman marries a Muslim then she is considered an outcast
forever.
r) According to Mr. Kumiko Yagi, Professor of Arab/Islamic Studies at Tokyo
University of Foreign Studies, "There is a mind frame in Japan that Islam
is a very narrow minded religion and one should stay away from it."

My estimation of the Japanese has risen dramatically!
VERY SMART PEOPLE

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Old 01-11-2013, 02:21 PM
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http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/0...lam-and-japan/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Japan
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:25 PM
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Posts: 56
makoto is on a distinguished road
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Scelli -- Thanks for the clarification on my last posting. I sent the websites you posted to my friend.
Too good to be true.



IDF Doctors Treat Japanese Woman with Knee Difficulties

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...MbwH_Jh8#at=17
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Last edited by makoto; 01-11-2013 at 03:28 PM..
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