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  #1  
Old 07-15-2012, 11:56 PM
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Default Higgs Boson: 'God Particle' Discovery Ignites Debate Over Science And Religion




(RNS) The Higgs boson is perhaps better known by its sexier nickname: the "God particle."

But in fact, many scientists, including the physicist for whom it is named, dislike the term.

In 1993 when American physicist Leon Lederman was writing a book on the Higgs boson, he dubbed it "the goddamn particle." An editor suggested "the God particle" instead.

One thing is clear: The July 4 discovery that marked a new chapter in scientific knowledge also reignited debate over the universe's origins -- and the validity of religious faith as scientific knowledge expands.

The Higgs boson explains why particles have mass -- and in turn why we exist. Without the boson, the universe would have no physical matter, only energy.

The cosmological implications are hotly debated. Can God fit in a scientific story of creation?

The answer is "no" for Lawrence M. Krauss, an Arizona State University theoretical physicist. He argued in Newsweek that the Higgs boson discovery "posits a new story of our creation" independent of religious belief.

"Humans, with their remarkable tools and their remarkable brains, may have just taken a giant step toward replacing metaphysical speculation with empirically verifiable knowledge," he wrote.

With enough data, physics would make God obsolete, he said. "If we can describe the laws of nature back to the beginning of time without any supernatural shenanigans, it becomes clear that you don't need God."

Religious believers see things differently.

Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno argued in a Washington Post column that scientifically deduced universal laws expose "the personality" of God. "The mysteries revealed by modern science are a constant reminder that reality is bigger than our day-to-day lives," he wrote.

Alternative medicine guru Deepak Chopra said in a YouTube video that the boson hints at a divine interconnectedness of all things.

"It only strengthens the notion that the universe comes out of a nothingness which is everything," he said.

This much is true: Higgs bosons -- which permeate the universe -- help us understand how something comes from nothing.

The awe we feel with this heady topic causes even nonreligious people to use religious language, said Philip Clayton, dean of Claremont School of Theology and a researcher of science and religion.

"Humans are really fascinated with what we know scientifically and what lies right at the boundaries of what we can know," he said.

Albert Einstein's quip that God "doesn't play dice with the world" is a metaphor to help explain our quest for order in a world that seems chaotic, Clayton said.

Such metaphorical language helps to explain the world at the particle level where physical laws such as gravity break down, and physicists rely on abstractions to describe how particles interact.

Clayton said discussing whether the discovery "disproves religion or supports creation" misses the point. "The fans and the foes of religion ... are overreaching on both sides. The quest for the Higgs boson, and its ultimate discovery, neither proves nor disproves God," he wrote in a Huffington Post column.

But Krauss says science isn't trying to disprove God. Rather, data only have to offer an explanation for the universe that would make a divine creator redundant. When English physicist Peter Higgs proposed the Higgs boson in 1964, it helped codify an incomplete model of the universe. This model was shown accurate through experimentation culminating in July 4's discovery.

Krauss said further experimentation will lead toward a "unified theory" of the universe that accounts for everything from quarks to galaxies.

"That's the difference between science and religion," he said. "We don't require the universe to be what we want -- we force our beliefs to conform to the evidence of reality."
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:53 AM
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Higgs Boson went to church , and the priest told him he can't possibly come in

H/B said huh whaddya mean , without me you can't have mass
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:08 AM
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Higgs Boson went to church , and the priest told him he can't possibly come in

H/B said huh whaddya mean , without me you can't have mass
Amen!


The much older book Lederman notes is the Bible and its account in Genesis 11:1-9 of the Tower of Babel, which he re-interprets:

"And the whole universe was of many languages, and of many speeches. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Waxahachie, and they dwelt there. And they said to one another, Go to, let us build a Giant Collider, whose collisions may reach back to the beginning of time. And they had superconducting magnets for bending, and protons had they for smashing."

"And the Lord came down to see the accelerator, which the children of men builded. And the Lord said, Behold the people are un-confounding my confounding. And the Lord sighed and said. Go to, let us go down, and there give them the God Particle so that they may see how beautiful is the universe I have made."

— The Very New Testament, 11:1

http://www.christianpost.com/news/ev...reation-77752/
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:11 AM
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i think God will have the last laugh, the science will lead to God and He will be standing there with a big smile and say "Now do you see me!"
the trouble with the scientists is that they talk of empirical evidence but if you start from the view point that God doesn't exist then you will skew the data to match what you believe! true empirical data means that you observe the data and then come to a conclusion-and if the data points to God you don't tear it up and start again or re-write the data.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:03 AM
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Science are religion are not inherently contradictory, there have been many renowned scientists who were deeply religious through the ages, Kepler, Copernicus, Einstein etc.
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if we haven’t so far learnt to live on earth.
All battles do culminate in ending a war;
A war generating battles is ‘curse’ not ‘mirth’.

At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:10 AM
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Science are religion are not inherently contradictory, there have been many renowned scientists who were deeply religious through the ages, Kepler, Copernicus, Einstein etc.
well said! isaac newton was another! a recent study showed that 49% of modern scientists believed in a 'special creation'
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Passage Isaiah 62

I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,


"I ask then, has God rejected His people? By no means! God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. For the gifts and call of God are irrevocable."
(Romans 11:1,2,29)
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:08 PM
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Higgs Boson went to church , and the priest told him he can't possibly come in

H/B said huh whaddya mean , without me you can't have mass

LOL!
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knaur View Post
Higgs Boson went to church , and the priest told him he can't possibly come in

H/B said huh whaddya mean , without me you can't have mass


I'm stealing this! Oh yea.... Friggin hilarious!

On a more serious note, I'm also a strong believer in the notion that religion and science and not incompatible. What makes them appear incompatible are the ideologues who are unwilling or unable to allow for accommodation of ideas. What I find so farcical is that it is these extremes that are so sure of themseles and yet I find them so utterly unbelievable. But maybe that's just me.....
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:23 AM
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http://www.isaac-newton.org/

odie
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That might of been the sad end of the story. But Nemo refused to give in without a fight. Ignoring his serious head wound, the 85 pound dog threw himself at the Vietcong guerrillas who had opened fire. Nemo's ferocious attack brought Thorneburg the time he needed to call in backup forces.

Although severely wounded, Nemo crawled to his master and covered him with his body.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:43 PM
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They always want to cross out the existence of God. Heathens...

They still don't get it. No matter what they learn the question will still remain.

"Who made it?"

So, who made the "God particle" Mr. scientist? :P

Don't like the "who" Mr. scientist? Ok then, what made the "God particle"? The Almighty is still a "What" and a "Who". :)
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:56 PM
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People throughout history have tried to explain existence without G_d. While I have attended seven different universities over my 60+ years I have yet to find anyone that had all the answers be it in science or divinity subjects. Having personally witnessed events where the laws of physics were sweep aside and reality as we humans understand it were not applied I can only say personally I have NO doubts. What was magic to people only 20 years ago is now science however what is understood by man compared to what is unknown is like a spoon full of water on an ocean. Man’s ego seeks to equal that of his creator which is the same thing that cause the archangel now known as Satan to fall.
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