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  #1  
Old 10-07-2007, 05:25 PM
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Default What do you think of atheists?

To start off with, I'm not here for an argument, or to attack theism or religion of any form

As an atheist, I was just curious to know what religious people often think of atheists.
Or for those that don't like to generalise, what do you believe atheism actually is?

Now, I'll try and explain, in my own words, what an atheist is.

Basically, the word atheist comes from the word theist.

A theist is anybody who has a theistic or religious belief. Basically, anybody who believes in one or more god.

An atheist is, simply put, anybody else.

Now, I'll try to explain my own stance:

I'm an atheist, because I don't hold a theistic belief. I don't believe in any gods.
Why don't I?
because I haven't seen sufficient evidence to believe in one. That's all.

Again, I'll rehash that I'm not here to attack theism or religion or any form. I'm simply curious to know what people's stance are, and what people believe an atheist to be.
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2007, 12:26 AM
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I personally think they have there place, but I never seen an atheist die, they all suddenly turn to god.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2007, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
I personally think they have there place, but I never seen an atheist die, they all suddenly turn to god.
Well, I'm not sure who you've seen die, but I've never seen or heard that happen with any atheist I know.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2007, 03:32 AM
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I am a palliative care nurse mate, thats my job to help people die.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2007, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
I am a palliative care nurse mate, thats my job to help people die.
Does everybody who dies mention god?

I think it's highly likely that you have seen many atheists, who you may not have known were atheists.

Though I also think that the newer generations of Australians are significantly less religious in general than the people who are 60-80+. Australia has become more secular over time.
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:44 AM
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Regardless of their beliefs it happens, I know you are only 19 and its hard for you to understand that people are never strong to a belief, when the idea of dying and being alone is real. I know my clients and they have had many years of life experince.

You wish to make judgements do so.

I will not debate with someone who can't understand the world is wider than a childs point of view.
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2007, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
Regardless of their beliefs it happens, I know you are only 19 and its hard for you to understand that people are never strong to a belief, when the idea of dying and being alone is real. I know my clients and they have had many years of life experince.

You wish to make judgements do so.

I will not debate with someone who can't understand the world is wider than a childs point of view.
Now I think that's being naiive.

Yes, I am younger than you are. That doesn't mean I'm instantly going to fit the stereotype of having a narrow spectrum of understanding.

In fact, I think that being an atheist actually does help broaden my understanding of people and their religious and theistic beliefs. Simply because atheism is truly neutral. All it is, is a lack of belief.

I just don't see why it's so hard to believe that there really are people who don't, and won't believe in a god. Even close to death.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:11 AM
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No its called reality.

You have a wide view???

How?

Have you held down a job for over 10 years?

Raised a family?

Owned your own your home?

Been truely independant without your parents there holding your hand?

Been in a long term relationship? And did don't mean a few days.

Are you even out of school?


Until then I don't see how your views can be wide.

And I am not religious, you assumed that. You judged before knowing.

Completely proves that at you age the know it all youth is still alive and well.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
No its called reality.
That's naive.

Quote:
You have a wide view???

How?
I read heaps. I'm an experienced super moderator of a long running and successful computer forum. I am living in this house on my own right now. I do have a job, and I have had one for a reasonable amount of time. I keep pets. One of which is a blind cat who requires medication for his rapid metabolism, and requires me to put him exactly where he needs to be in order to eat, or go to the toilet.

Quote:
Have you held down a job for over 10 years?
I've had one for over four years.

Quote:
Been truely independant without your parents there holding your hand?
Yes. In fact, my parents are on a holiday right now. I'm here on my own.

Quote:
Are you even out of school?
Yes, I am.


Quote:
Until then I don't see how your views can be wide.
And that makes you naive.

It's not just life experience that gives a person a wide view.
As a matter of fact, life experience can actually do quite the opposite, and make ones view extremely narrow.

Quote:
And I am not religious, you assumed that. You judged before knowing.
Well, are you religious or not?
do you believe in a god or not?

Your first post does suggest that you do.

Secondly, it wasn't a judgement at all. It was just a reasonable expectation on what your post implies that you believe.

Quote:
Completely proves that at you age the know it all youth is still alive and well.
And now you're being a bit presumptuous. You already assumed that I'd answer "no" to all your questions. Plus, you didn't consider that I'd make other examples, either.

Also, anybody who thinks they can completely prove anything (especially before they've already got all the evidence) doesn't understand the scientific process.

Finally, I'll point out the argumentum ad-hominen fallacy you used:
Quote:
I know you are only 19 and its hard for you to understand that people are never strong to a belief
The original purpose of the thread was for me to find out what religious people thought of atheists. Not for people to make assumptions about my understanding based on my age.
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by żżż View Post
To start off with, I'm not here for an argument, or to attack theism or religion of any form

As an atheist, I was just curious to know what religious people often think of atheists.
Or for those that don't like to generalise, what do you believe atheism actually is?

Now, I'll try and explain, in my own words, what an atheist is.

Basically, the word atheist comes from the word theist.

A theist is anybody who has a theistic or religious belief. Basically, anybody who believes in one or more god.

An atheist is, simply put, anybody else.

Now, I'll try to explain my own stance:

I'm an atheist, because I don't hold a theistic belief. I don't believe in any gods.
Why don't I?
because I haven't seen sufficient evidence to believe in one. That's all.

Again, I'll rehash that I'm not here to attack theism or religion or any form. I'm simply curious to know what people's stance are, and what people believe an atheist to be.




Many people go through an atheist period or 'lose their faith.' I considered myself atheist too in my younger angrier days. But then I started sitting outside during the evenings and feeding squirrels in the mornings and found myself going another way. Instead of the eternal debate "does G-d exist?" how about we start asking newer questions? Better questions. When you change the question to "Is G-d what religion thinks it is?" possibilities open up and you realize religion and science aren't mutually exclusive afterall. Where religious knowledge ends, scientific knowledge begins, and when science ends (like at a singularity) religion begins.

Many atheists are in fact religious in that their belief is the belief in a null. But in not even allowing for G-d to exist they miss out. Which would be odd for any good scientist. Ok, so you personally don't see how G-d could exist so say it doesn't. Yet saying so definitive an answer implies you have proof, but we all know you can't prove a negative. So as good scientists we should at least allow for the possibility of G-d. Doesn't have to be the religious idea of it, big universe afterall, pleanty of room for G-d.

We exist afterall. With how improbable that is, is it really so much more improbable something we humans might call G-d does exist afterall? Keep an open mind. I'm personally found of answering "I don't know." Perhaps if more answered Big Questions honestly they'd be able to think of it another way.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2007, 12:13 PM
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Can I just ask you, John Jeffrey, and I am not trying to insult your intelligence; do you understand that there really are atheists who remain atheists their whole lives?

I agree that there would be some atheists who do think to themselves that god may exist. And of course, yes, there are atheists who become religious.

There are also religious people who doubt the existence of a god, and/or who later become atheists.

Though I personally have never believed in god, and have never been a religious person. And I wouldn't describe myself as an angry person.

To understand a little about my personality, I have taken a personality test, and it tells me that I am an INTP (which I think is generally pretty accurate in describing me)

Anyway, I do have a lot of arguments as to why I don't believe in a god. And it's not me being angry at religion. It's just that lack of god belief makes more sense to me.

Quote:
Many atheists are in fact religious in that their belief is the belief in a null. But in not even allowing for G-d to exist they miss out. Which would be odd for any good scientist. Ok, so you personally don't see how G-d could exist so say it doesn't. Yet saying so definitive an answer implies you have proof, but we all know you can't prove a negative. So as good scientists we should at least allow for the possibility of G-d. Doesn't have to be the religious idea of it, big universe afterall, pleanty of room for G-d.
Technically speaking, I don't absolutely believe in no god. I just think the probability of a god existing is very low.

Obviously, you would disagree with me about the probability. But I find the probability of a god existing to be on the same level as the idea that we're all living in a giant computer simulation.

I can't prove we're not in a giant computer simulation. But the fact that I can't prove that we're not doesn't mean I would give credit to the idea.

That, in a nutshell, is basically where I stand.

From your post, it seems that you do understand the difference between lack of god belief, and belief in no god. Unfortunately not everybody does.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:01 PM
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Atheists belive in no existance of G-d; agnostic don't belive in G-d; I prefer to say that He belives in us. Good posts KIWI there're no atheists in trenches.
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:31 PM
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Atheists belive in no existance of G-d; agnostic don't belive in G-d; I prefer to say that He belives in us. Good posts KIWI there're no atheists in trenches.
Actually, an atheist is anybody who isn't a theist.
atheist = a-theist
or "not theist"
Quote:
there're no atheists in trenches
Why do you think that?
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:04 PM
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Yes, I understand what a atheist is.
I'm not well educated and not a debater but, I will try and answer from the Christian standpoint.The following is a quote that sums it up for me and remember this isn't a personal attack.

"It's not that a person can't find God, but that he won't. It has been rightly said that the "atheist" can't find God for the same reason a thief can't find a policeman. He knows that if he admits that there is a God, he is admitting that he is ultimately responsible to Him. This is not a pleasant thought for some.

In other words he/she doesn't want to have anyone to be responsible to for their sins.It could be said they are a part of the "If it feels good do it"crowd.

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Old 10-09-2007, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by żżż View Post
That's naive.

I read heaps. I'm an experienced super moderator of a long running and successful computer forum. I am living in this house on my own right now. I do have a job, and I have had one for a reasonable amount of time. I keep pets. One of which is a blind cat who requires medication for his rapid metabolism, and requires me to put him exactly where he needs to be in order to eat, or go to the toilet.

I've had one for over four years.

Yes. In fact, my parents are on a holiday right now. I'm here on my own.

Yes, I am.


And that makes you naive.

It's not just life experience that gives a person a wide view.
As a matter of fact, life experience can actually do quite the opposite, and make ones view extremely narrow.

Well, are you religious or not?
do you believe in a god or not?

Your first post does suggest that you do.

Secondly, it wasn't a judgement at all. It was just a reasonable expectation on what your post implies that you believe.

And now you're being a bit presumptuous. You already assumed that I'd answer "no" to all your questions. Plus, you didn't consider that I'd make other examples, either.

Also, anybody who thinks they can completely prove anything (especially before they've already got all the evidence) doesn't understand the scientific process.

Finally, I'll point out the argumentum ad-hominen fallacy you used:


The original purpose of the thread was for me to find out what religious people thought of atheists. Not for people to make assumptions about my understanding based on my age.
Does the word Troll mean anything too you.

Like it or not you have not basis for you thoughts. "I read a lot" yes I reckon you do.


Uni student?

I am developing the belief that the world needs only to be made up of 25year olds and up.

Even god believed that, cause he waited to jesus was older before sending him out to do his bidding

I am not going to disagree with the big man.
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
Does the word Troll mean anything too you.
Yes, I know what a troll is. It is not somebody who signs up for a forum and asks a question which he (or she) legitimately wants honest answers for.
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Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
Like it or not you have not basis for you thoughts.
Stop kidding yourself, Kiwi.
Also, have you heard of an argumentum ad hominen?
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Originally Posted by Groundpounder View Post
Yes, I understand what a atheist is.
I'm not well educated and not a debater but, I will try and answer from the Christian standpoint.The following is a quote that sums it up for me and remember this isn't a personal attack.

"It's not that a person can't find God, but that he won't. It has been rightly said that the "atheist" can't find God for the same reason a thief can't find a policeman. He knows that if he admits that there is a God, he is admitting that he is ultimately responsible to Him. This is not a pleasant thought for some.

In other words he/she doesn't want to have anyone to be responsible to for their sins.It could be said they are a part of the "If it feels good do it"crowd.
That may describe some atheists, however there are a very large amount of atheists (myself included) that really would like to see, if there is a god, real evidence.
It's not that we actively decide that we don't want to believe in a god. We just don't see any evidence that leads us to the conclusion that a god exists.
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Old 10-09-2007, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by żżż View Post
That may describe some atheists, however there are a very large amount of atheists (myself included) that really would like to see, if there is a god, real evidence.
It's not that we actively decide that we don't want to believe in a god. We just don't see any evidence that leads us to the conclusion that a god exists.
I would have to say there is plenty of evidence for God's existence.Look at the amazing complexity of his creation.The human brain for example is extremely complex and couldn't come about by chance.Air for example can't be seen but, we know it is there because we see its effects.Can't the same be said for God?
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Groundpounder View Post
I would have to say there is plenty of evidence for God's existence.Look at the amazing complexity of his creation.
defining it "his creation" is circular logic.

Quote:
The human brain for example is extremely complex and couldn't come about by chance.
Natural selection doesn't work by chance.
Quote:
Air for example can't be seen
but can be detected. It can be felt, heard, measured etc.. Unlike a god.
Quote:
but, we know it is there because we see its effects.Can't the same be said for God?
No. And labelling anything in the universe part of "god's effect" is circular logic, unless you have evidence to show that it is so.

If you're going to believe in a god, I'm not going to stop you. However, I've heard many arguments for the existence of a god, and I do not believe that any I've seen are valid.
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:00 AM
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A good discussion going on here. I just wanted to say that I was an atheist once, and I lay the blame on my attitude. Groundpounder hit the nail on the head when he described an atheist as someone who didn't want to 'look' for God because it would make him accountable for his actions. I was also caught up in the realm of science, wanting proof for everything. I thought everything could be explained through science, and I often described people who were religious as those who simply lacked knowledge and were simple minded. I imagine ¿¿¿ to be a rational kind of guy, but bear in mind that even the great Albert Einstein said that the more he uncovered the workings of the universe, the more he believed that 'somebody' had to be out there pulling the strings. I'll finish off with a quote I ran into and it goes: "Danger close knows no atheists". Just my 2 cents.

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Old 10-09-2007, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Demoralizer View Post
A good discussion going on here. I just wanted to say that I was an atheist once, and I lay the blame on my attitude. Groundpounder hit the nail on the head when he described an atheist as someone who didn't want to 'look' for God because it would make him accountable for his actions.
I believe the contrary; without a god, humans are always accountable for their own actions.

Quote:
but bear in mind that even the great Albert Einstein said that the more he uncovered the workings of the universe, the more he believed that 'somebody' had to be out there pulling the strings.
There is a lot of evidence that Albert Einstein didn't believe in an all-powerful creator of the universe, including his later years in life.

Here is a site written by a Christian, explaining that Einstein did not believe in a personal god:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html
It then tries to make an argument about where they think Einstein went wrong. However, they base their argument on the bible. And to do so is circular logic.

Of course, whether or not he believed in an all-powerful creator of the universe, to argue the existence or lack of a god using quotes from Einstein is fallacial, unless his quotes can also be backed up with evidence to support them.
Yes, Einstein was a very intelligent person. However even Einstein can make errors.

I believe, for example, that Einstein had trouble with the concept of Quantum Physics. He did not like the idea of something not having an absolute answer.
Quote:
I'll finish off with a quote I ran into and it goes: "Danger close knows no atheists". Just my 2 cents.
why do you say that?
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