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Religion Discuss religious beliefs.

View Poll Results: What is your religion/belief system?
Christianity 54 32.14%
Islam 16 9.52%
Judaism 44 26.19%
Hinduism 8 4.76%
Sikhism 1 0.60%
Atheist 10 5.95%
Agnostic 9 5.36%
Buddhism 5 2.98%
Paganism 1 0.60%
Other [Please State] 20 11.90%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 03-28-2013, 06:51 PM
fedorwandymirko fedorwandymirko is offline
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Judaism is the truth. All other religions need to be destroyed.
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  #122  
Old 03-28-2013, 07:31 PM
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Which Judaism? Torah? Torah-Talmud? Hareidi Orthodox? Knit-Kippa Orthodox? Masorti?

Is the Faith of Israel as exhibited by, say, King David, the same as Rav Schneirson's ultra-Orthodoxy?

I am not being funny or sarcastic. Just that I see a complex issue, being Israeli and living in the one place in the world where all types and kinds and flavours and colours of Jewish belief (or non-belief) coexist, easily in some instances, and with a lot of tension in others.

I should also point out that a lot of really great Goyim exist in this world, and some of them have even entered the royal line of David in the past, like Rut Ha-Mo'aviyah/Ruth the Moabitess. Her "conversion" being a simple, truthful, heart-felt declaration of full identification with Israel, her God, and her fate, for better or worse.
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  #123  
Old 03-28-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fedorwandymirko View Post
Judaism is the truth. All other religions need to be destroyed.
I am sorry you feel that way. As a Christian Zionst, I will never the less support and stand with Israel no matter what comes! Even if it means fighting my own country, I will stand with G_d's chosen people. You may reject me and my beliefs but I will always bless and pray for Israel!
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  #124  
Old 03-28-2013, 10:50 PM
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For the last few years, I have been worshiping with those of Messianic Judaism.

From Arad with love!!!

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  #125  
Old 03-28-2013, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fedorwandymirko View Post
Judaism is the truth. All other religions need to be destroyed.
If one reads all his posts its clear that "Fedor" is actually not Jewish but something else entirely .
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  #126  
Old 03-28-2013, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Knaur View Post
If one reads all his posts its clear that "Fedor" is actually not Jewish but something else entirely .
The boy is just a troll (and an immature one at that...) simply running his mouth on the very slim hope someone here will be impressed with such chest-pounding bravado and pay attention to him. What a lonely little guy he must be...
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  #127  
Old 03-29-2013, 12:27 AM
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I have met mature Jews that will have nothing to do with Christians and it does not bother me in the least as I understand. Jew and Christian hating Muslims don’t faze me either. Atheists, Nazis, Communists, in my 63 years I have met them all. I am quite secure in who and what I am. You would have to have seen the things I have seen and experienced the things I have to fully understand. If I tried to just tell it all most would not believe me and I would not blame them because if I had not personally been there I would not believe it either. I have literally seen Death’s Doorway and things in the Spiritual Realm. Death holds no fear for me any longer. I have seen past the curtain and only joy waits. I do not hate my enemies but only feel sorry for their fate which is theirs by their own free will. If all mankind would open their eyes, ears, and minds to G_d, He would gladly answer them but they must humble themselves before Him. It is not an easy thing to live “not my will but yours G_d”! It is not about how many times you stumble and fall but about how many times you get back up. If you are willing, He will reveal Himself and the Truth to you. But you have to be willing because G_d sees every thing inside you and you can’t hide even the smallest dark thing from Him. It is while scary, the most freeing thing you can ever do and then let G_d lead you. I was most undeserving of his mercy as a lost Goyim full of hate and anger toward mankind. Yet G_d showed me what I needed most when I needed it most and set my feet on a different path. People that knew me then would not understand the person I am now and I only have G_d to thank for that!
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  #128  
Old 03-29-2013, 12:45 AM
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My faith is in the God of Abraham and Issac. My faith tells me to have a Bible in one hand with tools to fight for my faith, family, beliefs in another hand. While Christianity has many denominations, there is only one God and his teachings. My faith also teaches me that I must do things for other people, charity, not relegate it to someone else. My faith and its accompanying beliefs tells me to stand against people and ideas that are unjust, and to help people who are themselves just in their cause, nature, and actions.
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  #129  
Old 03-29-2013, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by scelli View Post
The boy is just a troll (and an immature one at that...) simply running his mouth on the very slim hope someone here will be impressed with such chest-pounding bravado and pay attention to him. What a lonely little guy he must be...
Shalom.

He simply typed Judaism instead of Islam. Why aren't these trolls immediately banned?

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  #130  
Old 03-29-2013, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Little Rock View Post
Shalom.

He simply typed Judaism instead of Islam. Why aren't these trolls immediately banned?

Cheers

We allow people to show who they are first guys. Patience is a virtue.
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The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”

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  #131  
Old 03-29-2013, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Paparock View Post
We allow people to show who they are first guys. Patience is a virtue.
He reminds me of liberal trolls that go to conservative blogs and sites and posts racist and hateful stuff so his fellow lefteys can go OMG see how those evil bushler loving teabaggers talk about our beloved messianic ruler mr o.
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  #132  
Old 03-29-2013, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hworta View Post
He reminds me of liberal trolls that go to conservative blogs and sites and posts racist and hateful stuff so his fellow lefteys can go OMG see how those evil bushler loving teabaggers talk about our beloved messianic ruler mr o.

Feeding rope, will determine what he does with it.
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  #133  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:40 AM
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Even assuming the fellow in question was Jewish, he forgets that Israel was shaped by God from Goyim, and that Goyim have periodically entered into the nation of Israel. He also failed to read the Christian side of things, that they also accept Torah, and that the New Testament says that in effect their salvation as Goyim is an engrafting onto the root of Israel. That's not Protestant, or Roman Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox, or Coptic, or Ethiopic: that's basic, fundamental Biblical Christian doctrine. I can agree with that doctrine, or disagree, but I cannot deny that it is at the heart of Christian belief.

Paparock, most of my fellow Jews who will have nothing to do with Christians believe they are staying away from the fundamental anti-Semitism of the Roman church and her Eastern Orthodox and Protestant daughters. In doing so, they remain ignorant of the most genuine of Christians (in my 60 years of experience): a vestige from various types of Protestantism, and the remnants of the primitive church that never "went into" the Augustinian/Constantinian-Nicean Roman religion. Yet I hasten to add that Israel does acknowledge and honour Gentiles--mostly Chrisitian--at Yad Va-Shem and other places. So many of us are blind to our best friends, but many are not.

I had a lot of prejudice against Christians once, and a deep chip on my shoulder. For whatever reason, I eventually decided to educate myself. I read widely, from early Church Fathers and their Latin diatribes, down to all the various Protestant movements; arch predestinarians, and ardent dispensationalists, friends of Israel, protectors of Israel in exile; Jew haters, baiters and degraders; and everything in-between. That's when it became increasingly clear that I could not think of "Christian" without defining the term according to something more than common useage and cultural practice.

I chose to define a Christian as a believer in both Torah and New Testament, to the exclusion of all other religious tradition and culture, and accepting of the literal Biblical narrative as true history, and the spiritual narrative as imperative, and the commandments and standards of the God within as supreme and exclusive.

That might knock the dottle out of a few pipes, but it left me with a most interesting group of people, all of whom believed that being a friend to Israel was central to their faith. Not agreeing with every policy or practice, or loving everything about every Jew--but standing with Israel, defending Israel, and praying for Israel. After a long, rough journey, I stand by my definition, and that is why I loathe hearing the word Goy (plural Goyim) used as a pejorative. Anyone who uses that word as a general reference to something loathsome and base is making a deep mistake.

Last edited by David of Galilee; 03-29-2013 at 10:49 AM..
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  #134  
Old 03-29-2013, 01:42 PM
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I have met many a Jew hating Muslim, but just as many Jew hating Christians and even Jews. David says many wise things. There are also Muslims at Yad Va-Shem. Many people will post about the Mufti and his SS division. But a little research will show many Christian SS Divisions. I think the majority of these were more payback at traditional enemies than anti Jewish. That is my thought. I would like to add that of all the Nazi occupied countries the Jews lost the least in Muslim lands. Bosnia, and Albania. Historically Islamic lands where there was little western influence were not anti Jewish. I have posted Fatwas issues by Muftis in former USSR supporting Jewish claim to Israel, Even today a New Beit Medrash was built in Chechnia of all places with full support of the Mufti.
The bottom line is not all followers of a religion are the best examples or the worst. We should embrace our chosen religions and be an example to all others by doing good things. I am ashamed of Saudi influenced Islam and its bastard children in Iran and Pakistan, just as i am sure the stain of the Nazis, Crusaders , and modern White Power movements with their ties to a "church" repulse Christians.
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  #135  
Old 03-29-2013, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
I have met many a Jew hating Muslim, but just as many Jew hating Christians and even Jews. David says many wise things. There are also Muslims at Yad Va-Shem. Many people will post about the Mufti and his SS division. But a little research will show many Christian SS Divisions. I think the majority of these were more payback at traditional enemies than anti Jewish. That is my thought. I would like to add that of all the Nazi occupied countries the Jews lost the least in Muslim lands. Bosnia, and Albania. Historically Islamic lands where there was little western influence were not anti Jewish. I have posted Fatwas issues by Muftis in former USSR supporting Jewish claim to Israel, Even today a New Beit Medrash was built in Chechnia of all places with full support of the Mufti.
The bottom line is not all followers of a religion are the best examples or the worst. We should embrace our chosen religions and be an example to all others by doing good things. I am ashamed of Saudi influenced Islam and its bastard children in Iran and Pakistan, just as i am sure the stain of the Nazis, Crusaders , and modern White Power movements with their ties to a "church" repulse Christians.


You're right about Western influence and anti-Jewish feelings. I peruse the anti-Semitic press of many nations, and the caricatures and cartoons, the accusations, the claims of cabals and conspiracies, are almost all taken straight out of the West. And not just classic Russian imperial or NAZI German anti-Semitism--also the Henry Fords and Father Coughlin and Charles Lindbergs of America.

"Islamic" anti-Jewish material as far away as Indonesia seems to be heavily copied from the West, and localized.

My only problem with so-called Christian anti-Semites is that hating Israel is so fundamentally forbidden in the very Holy books upon which the faith is based. So are they then not false Christians? Tares among wheat? Wolves in sheepskins?

There are those who do not know how to say, "That man's actions are reprehensible," without then saying, "thus all who look like him, eat his food, speak his language, and claim his faith are all reprehensible, too."

I am not the only Zionist Israeli with Arab Muslim friends. In fact, I'd say that Ishmael can verify we here in Israel, in civilian life, or on the front line in uniform, are less likely to be broadly anti-Arab or anti-Muslim than many Western Israel supporters. I sympathize with that, but I confess that when I was shepherding my wife's long-eared Shami dairy goats near De'ir el Assad in the central Galillee, I found a brotherhood with fellahin, Bedouin, and Druse Arabs. Discussing protein content of milk, or flea control with olive oil in baby goats, or who made the best labnei. Even in disagreements over fences and grazing we never formed sides based on Jew vs Muslim. We helped to look for each other's lost goats, and we all dealt with the same jackals killing the young goat kids.

I know about all the terror, but I have never looked at Yasser Arafat or Ossama Bin-Laden and all their destruction and hate, and then pointed a finger at the Muslims in my neghbourhood and blamed them. I agree we have a radical Islamic violence problem, but my own faith forbids me from accusing a man of anything he cannot be proven to have done.

Last edited by David of Galilee; 03-29-2013 at 03:10 PM..
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  #136  
Old 03-29-2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David of Galilee View Post
Even assuming the fellow in question was Jewish, he forgets that Israel was shaped by God from Goyim, and that Goyim have periodically entered into the nation of Israel. He also failed to read the Christian side of things, that they also accept Torah, and that the New Testament says that in effect their salvation as Goyim is an engrafting onto the root of Israel. That's not Protestant, or Roman Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox, or Coptic, or Ethiopic: that's basic, fundamental Biblical Christian doctrine. I can agree with that doctrine, or disagree, but I cannot deny that it is at the heart of Christian belief.

Paparock, most of my fellow Jews who will have nothing to do with Christians believe they are staying away from the fundamental anti-Semitism of the Roman church and her Eastern Orthodox and Protestant daughters. In doing so, they remain ignorant of the most genuine of Christians (in my 60 years of experience): a vestige from various types of Protestantism, and the remnants of the primitive church that never "went into" the Augustinian/Constantinian-Nicean Roman religion. Yet I hasten to add that Israel does acknowledge and honour Gentiles--mostly Chrisitian--at Yad Va-Shem and other places. So many of us are blind to our best friends, but many are not.

I had a lot of prejudice against Christians once, and a deep chip on my shoulder. For whatever reason, I eventually decided to educate myself. I read widely, from early Church Fathers and their Latin diatribes, down to all the various Protestant movements; arch predestinarians, and ardent dispensationalists, friends of Israel, protectors of Israel in exile; Jew haters, baiters and degraders; and everything in-between. That's when it became increasingly clear that I could not think of "Christian" without defining the term according to something more than common useage and cultural practice.

I chose to define a Christian as a believer in both Torah and New Testament, to the exclusion of all other religious tradition and culture, and accepting of the literal Biblical narrative as true history, and the spiritual narrative as imperative, and the commandments and standards of the God within as supreme and exclusive.

That might knock the dottle out of a few pipes, but it left me with a most interesting group of people, all of whom believed that being a friend to Israel was central to their faith. Not agreeing with every policy or practice, or loving everything about every Jew--but standing with Israel, defending Israel, and praying for Israel. After a long, rough journey, I stand by my definition, and that is why I loathe hearing the word Goy (plural Goyim) used as a pejorative. Anyone who uses that word as a general reference to something loathsome and base is making a deep mistake.

David, as I said I understand why some Jews do not trust Christians and I also appreciate that Israel recognizes those that honor, respect, and support her. There has been those within the Christian faith throughout history to this day that systematically have practiced anti-Semitism to the point of saying “kill a Jew and save your soul.” I would not care to be in the place of such people when they stand before G_d upon that Great Day of Judgment. Some who claim to be Christians turn blind eyes to the fate of the Jewish people just as the majority of “Christian Churches” in Germany did across Germany and indeed Europe did during the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. That same thing is again happening across Europe this very day. The End result will be the same. All it takes for Evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing. Of course this brings into question wheatear they where ever truly good people to begin with as they refuse to put actions to their stated faith. The early Christians were willing to go to their death in the Roman Coliseum rather than deny their faith. Actions speak loader than words.

The early followers of Yeshua (Jesus) were persecuted by the Jews for many years however this does not justify any follower of Yeshua to do likewise to Jews when the power status is reversed. Yeshua taught us otherwise and we as his followers are to try following that example. Those calling themselves Christians that have practiced the persecution of Jews openly and even as a religious duty stand in stark opposition to the very words of the New Testament they say they believe.They will have to answer to G_d for their arrogance. Yeshua said the greatest commad is to love one another as you love yourself and to pray for your enemies.

As a Christian and a Zionist, I have taken flack from quite a few of my fellow Christians out of their ignorance. I have actually been welcomed into Synagogues to worship with them with more open arms than I have than in some Christian Churches. That said, I understand that Judaism does not accept Yeshua as the Messiah but looks forward to their Messiah to come. Time will settle who the Messiah is. I know throughout Jewish history there were a number of men that some within the Jewish nation thought might be the Messiah. I believe history is shaping such as Messiah is coming to defend Israel against all its enemies in the coming ten years. Now I may be very wrong in that timing but when Israel does see their Messiah and I have no doubt they will very soon see him. It will be found out if Christians are right that it is Yeshua returned or not. Either way Messiah is coming and soon.

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O Israel
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The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”


Last edited by Paparock; 03-29-2013 at 04:03 PM..
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  #137  
Old 03-29-2013, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
I would like to add that of all the Nazi occupied countries the Jews lost the least in Muslim lands. Bosnia, and Albania. Historically Islamic lands where there was little western influence were not anti Jewish.
That is factually incorrect.

Quote:
I have posted Fatwas issues by Muftis in former USSR supporting Jewish claim to Israel, Even today a New Beit Medrash was built in Chechnia of all places with full support of the Mufti.
I believe these are purely political decisions, with absolutely zero to with either Islam or Judaism.
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  #138  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:19 PM
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I have to say that the Jews from Albania in Israel do indeed suggest general good relations with the Muslim population. Their big problem was poverty and corruption, and not Islam. What it is like since the fall of the totalitarian regime, I don't know.

I lived in a town in Galilee once that had quite a large community of Jews from Albania--bearing in mind that there were never more than a few hundred to a few thousand Jews ever in Albania. Anciently maybe more, but who knows. So a few dozen in Karmiel was a high percent of all Jews from Albania. Not enough Jewish men for the Jewish women, either, because a number of young men had migrated out, which was hard for single women to do. They saw Albania as devoid of opportunity, but, I never met one who felt chased out by Islam. Albania has been acknowledged "officially" for its positive treatment of Jews here in Israel.

In Islamic countries, the record is various. Until the modern era, typically much better than in the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox countries. Jews were disadvantaged before the law, and often paid a tax. But most historians agree that the slaughter of Jewish communities and large-scale pogroms were not at all common after the initial Islamization of the Arabian peninsula and the battle against the Jewish tribes of Yathrib, and until the violence and expulsions of the modern era.

In between these bad periods, there were long stretches over large areas of the Muslim world where Jews had a good deal of success, and most famously in old Andalus, Spain. But also in a number of Muslim capitals. I would suppose that Moshe Ben Maimon, aka Maimonides, aka The Rambam, was the most famous example.

The Shi'a Parsi of Iran were harder on Jews by far than the Arabs. But as sad, the record all over is uneven.

So is the Muslim record perfect? No. But better than the Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox record by far. The West simple cannot make a claim of consistent superior attitude and treatment toward Jews than the Muslim world until after the Holocaust. And even now, anti-Semitism in the West is still very popular. What is true is that after the Enlightenment, pockets of civility opened up, and harsh physical violence was drastically reduced. Clearly linked to Protestant lands. Though attitude toward Jews was still harsh. And in the late 19th century everything went backwards and down hill with pogroms and slaughter in the heart of Western "Christendom." A sad truth, but not one Jews can ignore.

In truth, we have frequently been caught between rocks and hard places. That's why we wanted to go home, and at least have a place from which to stand and fight!

Last edited by David of Galilee; 03-29-2013 at 06:28 PM..
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  #139  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:42 PM
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The boy is just a troll (and an immature one at that...) simply running his mouth on the very slim hope someone here will be impressed with such chest-pounding bravado and pay attention to him. What a lonely little guy he must be...
What are you talking about, how about I tell you that I posted pro-Israel stickers around the city I live in, and I talk about politics with random strangers to combat anti-Israel ideologies that are present where I live.

You are calling me an anti-Israel troll?
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Knaur View Post
That is factually incorrect.



I believe these are purely political decisions, with absolutely zero to with either Islam or Judaism.
Politics aside it is done in a time when only one western nation has its embassy in Jerusalem. So maybe these fellows have more strength than the governments of the west.
As for facts, Ill do some research and post the sources, I am guilty of not keeping sites booked marked, however; I normally do not forget what I read. I think we went through this once before. :)
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