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Army Related Forum Topics about the Israeli armed forces, special forces, tanks, apc's, guns etc + world armies.

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  #201  
Old 10-02-2010, 11:50 AM
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The only country having M1A2 Abram Tank is Egypt among our neighbors. And they are are not gonna fight with us so no question of real battle between these two tanks. Although in joint practices both have performed well up to expectations.
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  #202  
Old 10-02-2010, 02:53 PM
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You never know what kind of political establishment will rule Egypt in the future. IDF need to be prepared for every possibility.
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  #203  
Old 10-02-2010, 03:04 PM
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We are ready for any Army. Our leaders always first make sure that weapons our neighbours receive shouldn't be superior to what we have. No doubt M1 is good but Merkava is best in the region.
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  #204  
Old 11-12-2010, 11:20 PM
Akiva_ben_ahava Akiva_ben_ahava is offline
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In regards to fuel consumption, the M1 Abrams is a gas sucker. How does the Merkava do with fuel efficiency?
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  #205  
Old 11-13-2010, 02:56 AM
Sol Sol is offline
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well, as a german, I would vote for the Leopard II. I admit Ive no experience with other tanks. And for sure the Leopard was developed for european terrian.

But anyway, isnt the tank crew the deciding factor?

I think its the same like with cars. The best race car will not make it, if the driver isnt worth his money. The best tank cant win the fight, if they try to load the amo in the wrong end of the gun?

Justs my 5 cents.

Btw, canada uses 20 Leopard 2A6M-CAN in Afganistan at ISAF.
And theres a story about a Leopard got hit by an IED. The tank crew survived. They said in an other vehicle nobody would have had a chance to stay alive after such a hit.
Source:wikipedia "Leopard 2" (sorry, wasnt allowed to post the url)
Scroll down to combat history

Last edited by Sol; 11-13-2010 at 03:12 AM.. Reason: added source
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  #206  
Old 11-13-2010, 07:19 AM
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the crew IS the deciding factor in a tank vs tank battle.
but there hasn't BEEN a tank vs tank battle in this part of the region in about 30 years.
Abrmas in Iraq recently wen't up against Iraqi T-72s which were downgraded version of the original T-72, and driven by less trained crews.
which i'd hardly call a true test of the M-1's capabilities.

with that in mind, you need to factor in other specs.
Abrams M1A2 vs merkava MK 4 (the newer version)
Gun : same 120mm gun.

Armor : classified for merkava as to actual specs, so the best i can do is say that the MK4 has been show capable of withstanding hits from a missile that can penetrated 4 feet thick layers of armor 2 out of 3 times.
its also got armor on top of the turret to protect against top down attacks (which the Abrams does not).
the Abrams is protected by Choboam armor, which was thought to be the most powerful armor, until a Challenger 2 tank (also armored with it) had its FRONT hull penetrated by an RPG-29 (which can only penetrate 2.5 feet), which brings to question just how effective Choboam armor is against shaped charges.
recently the M1s are getting updated with DU armor, which should give it an edge, but its only in the front aspects, and not on the sides.

Speed : Abrams has a road speed of 67 KPH on road, and 48 KPH off road.
the Merkava MK4 has a road speed of 64 KPH on road, and an off road speed of 55 KPH
the Abrams has a small advantage on road (3 Km faster), and the Merkava has a considerable advantage off road (8 Km faster).

other then that, i haven't got much.
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  #207  
Old 11-17-2010, 04:32 PM
Hizkiya Hizkiya is offline
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Come on guys, it is not mainly about what tank is best. It is firstly about elastic, flowing and adaptable field tactics. Adaptable to the movement of the enemy so you can get a better shot at him. Secondly it is about gunnery training as in "first shot kills!" Thirdly it is about the ground support you get from your aircraft. Fourthly it is about the howitzer barrage or rocket artillery you can pour on the enemy. Fifthly it is about what your mechanized infantry on your flanks or in your midst is doing with its AT missiles. Israeli upgraded Centurions cut Egyptian and Syrian tanks of a younger generation into pieces in the Sinai and on the Golan, not to speak of the upgunned WW2 Sherman grand-dads! Don´t you worry!
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  #208  
Old 11-17-2010, 05:19 PM
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Merkava is the best we can operate in Israeli and neighbor terrain. Mark IV is its final version and there is not going to be any Mark V. In upcoming years we may need new generation MBT but for now and in next 5 years we have this machine to rely on.
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  #209  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:14 PM
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What about the training of the tank crews and tactics? We are talking about possible conflict between Israel and Egypt here. Not between Israel and US. The performance of US M1 with american crew and egyptian (downgraded version) with egyptian crew are two completely different things.
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  #210  
Old 03-24-2011, 12:43 AM
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The big difference between the Abrams and the Merkava is the powerpack - the Abrams uses jet fuel, and the Merkava uses diesel. This gives the Abrams a higher top speed, but it uses fuel at twice the rate of the Merkava. There are plans to retro-fit the merkava with a diesel engine CAT engine with the same hp as the governor --limited turbine Honeywell engine (1500hp).
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  #211  
Old 03-24-2011, 02:54 PM
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If I remember correctly, the Abrams is basically an armored drag racer. It was designed for a world war three fight with the Soviets, and the assumption was that we would only get a couple of weeks to fight before someone launched a nuke and the whole world melted. The idea was, if we could race into the enemy’s rear, they would be more hesitant to use tactical nukes, and if we could smash their armored columns early, we could dig in and start negotiating from a position of strength before a nuclear war started.
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  #212  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:17 AM
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Abrams is still a great tank!
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  #213  
Old 09-03-2011, 07:04 PM
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it is very true look at the german tiger versus any of the allied tanks in that war. they were far superior in design, but lost due to lack of the whole picture. there is logistics, command and control, tactics, and most impoprtantly the drive and desire of teh individual soldier to stay alive alert and mission focoused. besides when you bring in air, artillery, fires elements, and tanks you are makeing it easier for the ground pounding infantryman to go through and clear the area to occupy it. as far as which tank will stand up better you have to be able to think of the rest of the support and service elements. a machine is a machine without fail it will do what it is designed to. the operator makes the tank not the other way around.
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  #214  
Old 09-08-2011, 02:54 PM
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[quote=egyrapschool;95646]well.. i see every one feel attraction to merkava...first i think every tank can be destroy what ever if merkava or abrams or leopard..and every country has his own system of shield ...merkava is worest design i have ever see... first engine in front and it is easy to break tank even with rpg with two head bomb.....and its not stable because weight concentrate on front and u can see in internet many photo about tank accident crush ...and in Lebanon its show merkava is Soldiers cemetery ...and i saw american say that abarms which we have not shield ....he is right about just one thing ...Uranium shield ..egyptian abrams without this sheild but not cuz america dnt want give it to us ... its because .. its get cancer ..and egyptian abrams cost 2.5 $ an american abrams 4.5 $ an merkava is 6-7 $ and many cancel contract about buy merkava even turkey after Lebanon war so if your country dont get costumer soon .. this project will shut down..[/quote]

Based on what besides your expert opinion?? Do you have any links to back your statement of canceled contracts???

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  #215  
Old 09-27-2011, 02:03 PM
loreng59 loreng59 is offline
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The Abrams will be nothing more than a sitting duck for the IDF. Because the Abrams' fuel consumption all we have to do is aim for the unarmored fuel trucks. That means after the 1st 6 hours the Abrams will be out of gas and out of the fight. The Merkava's fuel supply is good for 24 hours of action.

Both have the same level of fire controls, same main weapon. In open flat terrain the Abrams has better speed, but in rough terrain the Merkava's mobility is better.

It would be a turkey shoot and the Abrams would be the turkey.
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  #216  
Old 09-30-2011, 11:46 PM
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Arrow M1a2 abrams & merkava mk iv







As an officer in the US Army, I did some cross training in M60 tanks so I have very limited understanding of armored warfare. My knowledge is more in the Air Defense, artillery, and infantry areas; not necessarily in that order. I’ll leave armor to those experts in that area but don’t get within 800 yards of me if I have a half decent rifle. I know a lot of very interesting improvised devices that do not depend on explosives I learned that today’s Army no longer teaches as well as some tactics as well. We as a people sometimes tend to forget the lessons we should have learned from history but some of us remember them.
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Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”


Last edited by Paparock; 10-01-2011 at 12:14 AM..
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  #217  
Old 10-01-2011, 06:45 PM
joejd12 joejd12 is offline
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hey paparock, just thought id let yo know that the 3rd video you posted of a merkava mk 5 is just a random guys conception of what such a future vehicle could be.

not only has it been declared numerous times that the mk 4 will be the last redesign of the merkava (though this decision could be changed), but at the end of the video it also says that it was made by "the unit for lack of use of learning time" (direct translation)
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  #218  
Old 10-01-2011, 08:16 PM
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Thanks for info. joejd12.
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O Israel
The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”

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  #219  
Old 02-05-2012, 07:53 AM
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  #220  
Old 02-08-2012, 05:19 AM
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the m1 series of tanks are very good and so are the merks but the point is ignoring a fundamental when comparing the merkava is crewed by israelis and the m1s are not i dont know about the current state of tankers in isreal but if past history is still true add a big plus one to the merkava
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